Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

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Old 07-30-2003, 01:32 AM
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Charlie E
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

I'm getting ready to test this engine on my Shrike 10. What kind of speed should I expect? I plan on trying many props. 8X6, 8X8, 9X4 and 9X6 and maybe some others.
I'm sure someone is running this setup...Which prop is giving you the best performance? (Speed)

Help me out Revver Brothers....


Charlie

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Old 07-30-2003, 06:32 PM
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Charlie E
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hey Charlie, just noticed your post and wanted to inform you that I picked up a few props today an APC 8X4, 8X5, 8X6, you may want to give them a try this afternoon. You can add these to your list of props to test.

Charlie
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Old 07-30-2003, 06:35 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Thanks Charllie for replying to my post. I was just about to give up on getting advice on the Norvel/Shrike combo.

Thanks again.
Charlie
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Old 07-31-2003, 02:14 AM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hey Charlie, open up the window when using the CA. You are beginning to talk to yourself. I don't own a Shrike nor a Norvel 25, so take this for what its worth.

I suspect your 9x6 is too much prop. That's what we run on our TT 40's, and get 17,000. Don't you want at least that rpm on your 25? 8x8 is about the same load per my rule of thumb (1" dia=2" pitch), so it's also too much. 9x4 is what I hear the combat guys run on their norvels, but it does not have enough pitch to go fast as you want to go. 8x6 sounds about right. I would also suggest trying a 7x7 and 7x8.

Paul
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Old 07-31-2003, 03:28 AM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hi Charlie,

I also just finished my Shrike 10 (OS 25FX with a full Mac's tuned pipe) about 2 weeks ago.

I've been trying a bunch of APC props with this combo, including 8X5, 8.5X5, 8X6, 8X7, 9X5 and 9X6. So far, I think I get the best speed from the APC 8X7, but I haven't actually got a radar reading on it yet, so it's just a subjective feeling.

Not sure how your Norvel compares with the OS25FX, but I'm getting about 18,500 rpm with the 8X6 on 15% fuel. The engine is still new and isn't completely broken in yet.

I didn't tach the 8X7 prop yet; I'll try to get some good readings this week-end.

The local experts are suggesting I use the highest pitch prop that will still turn about 17,000 rpm (to get it "on the pipe" properly).

In the meantime, it's a kick to fly this little plane.

Our LHS had a $99 sale on the OS 32SX this month, so I picked one up for the inevitable Shrike upgrade!

Darwin
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Old 07-31-2003, 08:09 AM
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Charlie E
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Great information fellows. Thanks for replying.
I will post the results when I finish testing.


Thanks again,
Charlie
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Old 08-04-2003, 05:11 AM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Gootrod,

Here is my Shrike 10 with an OS 25FX.

I thought I better post a picture of it before I get distracted and fly it into the ground!

I've been flying this for about 3 weeks now and I get the best speed with an apc 8x7 prop at 16,500 rpm.
It is plenty fast, although I haven't got a measured speed on it yet. I'm estimating 110-115 mph.

I found that by setting the balance point slightly aft (about 1/8 to 1/4 inch of the CG point shown on the plans), I get better flair on landing. Any further aft and it gets squirrely.

Darwin
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Old 08-04-2003, 09:43 AM
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Default Shrike / Norvel

Good idea, posting a pic before it's to late. The Norvel .25 BB Revlite really moves. Next time out I'll check the speed. I'm not saying at this point, I just know it's fast and spooky.
8X4 APC 16,000 rpm. It will do more, I'm running her a little rich for a few tanks.
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Old 08-04-2003, 03:06 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Gootrod,

Hey, good color choice for your covering job! It kinda looks like you grooved out the hatch behind the engine mount, perhaps to make room for a rear-exhaust pipe sometime in the future?

The first half-dozen times I flew this thing I was pretty nervous. It is definitely the quickest plane I have flown. I pretty much just flew wide, sweeping turns and low passes over the field. Now, I'm now getting used to the speed and responsiveness of it and have started to try out more aerobatic moves. Of course, this is just about the time ya get cocky and plow it in (Hey guys, watch this!).

I noticed in another thread you are also working on a 40-sized Shrike. Have you finished it yet. These things are so cheap, I was thinking of getting one also.


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Old 08-04-2003, 03:45 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hey Man, yes I groved it out for the Rossi 15 I had on it for testing. Not the performance I was looking for but the Norvel is sweet. The Shrike 40 is still under construction.

Hey Darwin, if you have Broadband I can send you a video of my Shrike running a OS .20
Kinda quick but nothing like the Norvel.

Charlie
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Old 08-04-2003, 04:33 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Gootrod,

Ha! Well actually I downloaded your video almost a month ago. At least I think it was yours...the one with the Tesla sound-track! Good choice of music, by the way.

I always get a kick out of you, at the end, saying somethin like..."I think she was movin'.."

I keep its icon on my desktop and play it every now and again, and my wife always says...Not again!

Anyway, great job on the video-it helped inspire me to finish mine and get it in the air. Now, you need to make another one with your Norvel power.

Darwin
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Old 08-04-2003, 07:24 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

LOL, my wife says the same thing, LOL
I play it from time to time just to drive her crazy. I turn it up pretty loud to get the effect.

Hey you need the new version. Two camara setup. It still has the OS 20 on it but the two camara setup is cool. The next video will be the Norvel/Shrike combo.

http://rclibrary.com/vids/Shrike_6-23-2003.mpg
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Old 08-04-2003, 07:41 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Gootrod,

I will take a look at the new version tonight when I get home. I don't have dsl in my office at the moment.

It just occurred to me that the 1/12 scale reno racers we race at our club might also qualify for extreme-speed planes. These are small (about 3 lbs) hand-launched planes based on the full-sized Reno racers. The wings are about 200 to 250 sq inches. There are some race rules that limit the engine size according to the wing area, but they fly as fast, or even faster than the Shrikes. People are even putting Dubb Jett 25’s in them. Zoom!

We had our first race last month, and it was a blast, even if we only had 5 planes competing. If you can imagine 5 Shrikes with the same sized engines flying around the pylons , it is probably close!

Here is a link to our club web site and some pics of our racers. Mine is the yellow (of course) “American Jet” bearcat. It also has a OS 25FX and performance pipe. For some reason, I have been accumulating a lot of yellow monocoat over the years, because I keep forgetting I already have 2-3 rolls stashed away.

http://www.sacramento-rc-flyers.org/...l03/index.html

Flying these little racers gave me the confidence to fly the Shrike.

Darwin
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Old 08-04-2003, 08:00 PM
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Charlie E
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hey Darwin, nice plane. I bet you guys have a blast. Cool site. Let me know what you think of the video. Remember, for the real effect crank it up. Your wife will forgive you eventually.


Charlie
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Old 08-05-2003, 05:21 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Is there a rule of thumb for determining prop size / pitch for the greatest speed? I have heard that more pitch = more speed, but for the life of me the 8x4 that Charlie used at the field seemed faster than the 8x6 did. The little Norvel was SCREAMING, and hand-launching was an experience.

Perhaps the 8x6 wasn't letting the Norvel get up into the RPM range it likes?

Just a little confused on prop selection when it comes to these speed planes. All thoughts appreciated.

Brian
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Old 08-05-2003, 10:05 PM
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Default doppler speed

Hi,

I just came back from the field with some doppler speed measurements on my Shrike 10 with an apc 8x7 prop and OS25FX and Mac's tuned pipe:

average speed of 4 passes was 122 mph with an in-flight (unloaded) rpm of 18,500.

I must point out that these measurements are preliminary and have not been fully calibrated with radar gun readings (which have their own sources of error). I used the spectrum analyzer programs found in other threads in this forum and sampled the sound with a Sony minidisk digital recorder. I have done some very preliminary side-by-side comparisons with a radar gun and the doppler measurements seem to read 1-3 mph higher, for what ever reason. I'm still trying to figure it out.

I do like the fact that the sound doppler system gives you in-flight rpm which you can't get with a radar gun.

Darwin

Oh yeah, I liked Gootrod's hellraiser video, especially the low-level overflights on camera 2! I wouldn't want to be that camera person, tho!
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Old 08-06-2003, 01:13 AM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hey Darwin, the #2 camera guy has 3 legs. A tripod set in the middle of the runway. If someone would actually do that, they would have my vote of nut of the month. LOL
Hey, I also did some speed runs today and my flying buddy Brain is using the Doppler Shift Program to check the speed. It seems to be pretty close. I think I will need to pipe for my Norvel to get the speeds your getting. I plan to do just that after I get some more run time on the Norvel.
I'll post the results of todays test.

Thanks for the comments on the HellRaiser Video.

Charlie
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Old 08-06-2003, 04:43 AM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

I'll be interested in what your speeds are. I hear the Norvel can really spin up the rpm's. You just need to find the best prop to convert all those rpm's into speed! I'm still experimenting with different props.

Also, I've been trying to figure out how to bundle the spectrum analyzer and Excel spreadsheet into my HP IPAQ pocket pc, so that all I need to do is hold up the pda to record the passing plane with its built-in mic, analyze the hi and low freqs and convert to mph and rpm, all while still on the flight line. I can record the sound OK and I have the Excel formula working, but the available sound analyzer programs for the pocketPC are still too clunky to use.

For now, I have to record with a portable minidisk, then feed it into my laptop back in the pits, so it takes me about 5-10 minutes to get final speed figures...I usually record half a dozen passes, and average them.

When I first started recording planes, people at the field were curious but worried I was the "sound-police", trying to bust em for excessive noise violations!

Now, I get the feeling they're worried cause I fly the Shrike too fast!!

Darwin
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Old 08-06-2003, 10:21 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hey Darwin, well it looks like the Norvel .25 w/o header or pipe is doing well. The average of four passess is 118 mph. I sent you a PM today. I want to send you my excel sheet to see if you are using the same thing. My best pass was 123.8 mph. Once I pipe her, I'm moving up on pitch and try to maintain rpm's somewhere
around 17,000.

Later
Charlie (Gootrod)
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Old 08-06-2003, 10:48 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Darwin....

Let me know if you find a good sound analyzer program for the Pocket PC. I have one of the Dell Axims, and I would love to be able to run all of this from the PDA at the field.

Brian
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Old 08-06-2003, 10:51 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Charlie,

I just e-mailed my speed numbers to you. I'm sure it's the same spreadsheet you're using.

If you're getting 120 mph now, I'll bet a pipe will boost your speeds into the low 130 mph range! Hang on to your hat!!

As I mentioned, I would like to compare these speeds with the radar gun, hopefully this week-end.

Too bad you're not closer, cause we'd definitely have to set up a race!

Darwin
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Old 08-06-2003, 11:08 PM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hi Brian,

Yeah, I downloaded demos for PocketRTA, PhonTuner, Deeth, HandDee-SA and some others to try out. They all have deficiencies of one sort or another, although the HandDee-SA has the most promise.

I can't remember their web site, but just use a search engine and you'll find it.

I would probably have to call up their software guys and see if they could modify it a bit to give us an expanded scale for the low-freqs and then to maybe save the min and max freqs. I'm sure it can be done, but these programs were designed for the Hi-fi music crowd, so the features we need would have to be added.

I modified the Excel spreadsheet to make it more "PocketPC-friendly" and it works well, and you can record the planes just fine.

I noticed another current thread in this forum dealing with "real-time" speed measurements, so I know there is an interest. As always, the cost factor will always be important.

Darwin
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:19 AM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hey Charlie / Brian,

I flew the Shrike again today and measured the speed with the club's radar gun. Once again, it was averaging 122 mph (117 to 127), which was exactly what I got with the doppler shift system. I also flew the 12th scale bearcat and it was 5 mph slower than the Shrike, which is not surprising since the bearcat has an 8.5 x 5 prop while the Shrike was running the 8x7 prop. Both planes are running the OS25FX with pipes.

So, based on these experiments, I have confidence that the doppler shift method is a good alternative to the radar gun. Also, it's time to pull the 25FX and drop in the 32SX engine because I think, at this point, its pretty much maxed out with the 25FX.

I will keep you posted...

Darwin
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Old 08-11-2003, 08:27 AM
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Default Shrike 10 with Norvel AME 25 BB

Hey Paul,

That is good info to hear. I'm taking the next step with the Norvel. I ordered a Mousse pipe with header combo from Flying Z Hobbies. I should have it this week. I will keep you posted on the results.

Charlie
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Old 08-12-2003, 12:43 AM
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Default Header & Mousse Can

Hey, I received the header and pipe today. Weather permitting I will test tomorrow.


Later,
Charlie
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