Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

West 50 is shafted

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Old 08-08-2003, 12:47 PM
  #1  
Gricey
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Default West 50 is shafted

W50 v1 being sent back to WestonUK very shortly..... my motor was quite tight when it was brand new, almost impossible to turn over by hand! Ran it in on Prosynth fuel with all of the usual care but at TDC the piston would always squeek when trying to turn over. Once the engine was running it seemed fine. Even after 20 tanks it still felt tight but no more squeeking. Anyway, flying last Saturday morning and the plane was really whipping along, the fastest it's ever been. When it came down from a sortie, we found that it made a strange noise when trying to start the next time, then found that it had a very tight rotation and a serious clunk between 9pm - 11pm (if you can imagine the propellor being the big hand on a clock). So no more flying for that engine (just yet). I suspect the conrod is bent or the grudgeon pin has sheared..... Haven't got around to taking it out of the plane yet but will do it this weekend and if there are any gorey pics will email them on to you all for oohs' and aahhs....

And for the doubters....
* Always run on ProSynth 10% - Westons own brand
* Never run lean - the engine was not above normal heat temperature that day after each run (eg, easily hold your hand on the head without burning)
* Although the ambient temperature was up slightly, Ireland has still been well below the rest of Europe and it would have been maybe 25c (not like Spain with 50)
* I have always used an electric starter on it but never when it has been flooded and it is also recommended for a .40 to .90 motor so is within tolerance.

Perhaps I just got unlucky with this one and a small manufacturing fault has affected me.... let's see what Weston say....

Gricer
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:29 PM
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RossiRay
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Default abc's of ABC/AAC

The snugness at tdc is normal for this type of piston/sleeve arrangement. The fact that it is tight is good! When the engine is at operating temperature, the sleeve expands at the top. This is why it is good to run them in from new at slightly less than peaked mixtures, just like you would to fly.

A killer of some of these engines is to be run too cool. The tight fit at top can be made even more snug, and create very high stresses on the crank pin, rod, wrist pin and piston pin race. Your reference to being able to hold your hand on the head would cause me to think it was running too cool.

Or maybe it was just defective.
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Old 08-08-2003, 07:11 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

I'm about to order some new parts too... I haven't opened it up yet, but last week it started to make some very strange noises when turned over by hand when it was hot (thin oil)...

I suspect the bearings in the conrod are the culprit...

I always said it was a matter of time before something like this was going to happen... I knew it...

I admit I haven't exactly babied my engine... but I didn't expect it breaking this fast... I actually had the engine dismanteled two weeks ago to change bearings, and back then everything seemed ok.

Maybe it was just too hot to fly Magnum... we've had a pretty constant 35C or there about the last ten days...

Anyway... I'll just put in a new rod, liner and piston, and then we're ready to rock again...
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Old 08-08-2003, 08:50 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

Hey guys, I am a little of the subject but....

What do you guys think about running 2 weston uk 50's on my almost finished Pica Deullist?

would it be worth the money to order 2 balance and ready.
currently have 2 used webra 50s that I am planning on installing.

Sorry for the subject change but I did not think this warranted a whole new thread.
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:12 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

I don't know that plane... is it sleek? It has to be sleek, because the West needs to rev, and that means running small props...

The West engines start to spit fuel out of the carb when running if they're not allowed to rev up properly...

If it is sleek enough to run 8 or 9 inch props, go for it...
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:21 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

Well it is not sleek like the magnum but it should be able to handle 9 inch props. I had planned on running 9" props on the regular Webra's but after having so much fun with the weston 50v1 I am hoping to upgrade.

The deullist looks like a fast twin engine sport plane. typically would call for 40-46 2 strokes.

Revver brother but forgot my number (#37 i think?)
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Old 08-09-2003, 10:42 AM
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Default Weston parts..

Eh Ruddeboy,
I'm just curious about engine parts price. Can u tell me more about them ? For example, how much does a new sleeve / piston arrangement cost for this Weston engine ?
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Old 08-09-2003, 10:47 AM
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Default West 50 is shafted

I don't know yet... I haven't mailed them yet...

I know a set of bearings costs 17.50 shipped to Belgium though...
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Old 08-09-2003, 04:32 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

if you were gonna use bog standard Webbys, why not Use West 50 T1's? the tanks run dry QUICK! on the V1 and even tho you can cut the throttle, i wouldn't want to be flying for the 2-3 seconds that takes. i don't know how fast the T1 would go tho, i've only used 13x4 and 12.25x3.75 so far
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Old 09-01-2003, 07:08 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

As far as parts prices for the v1 go, a new set of bearings, a new piston and a new liner cost me GBP 62.50.

Mine had been running a bit "off-song" for a little while, so a friend of mine stripped it down and sorted it out for me. Now runs better than ever!! around 20000 rpm with an 8X9 APC prop.
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Old 09-01-2003, 07:56 PM
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Ian.W
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Default West 50 is shafted

the T1 would fall part under high RPM, its designed for low revs high torque, the V1s is the oppicite

i dont use prosynth, forget this advertising scandal, ITS NOT TRUE! i do however recomend use ing fuel with only Klotz in it, no outher synthetics and NO CASTOR!!
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Old 09-01-2003, 08:04 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

Ian you muppet, you crack me up
first noone said T1
second the T1 WONT fall apart under high RPM, the internals are exactly the same, the diffrence is the timing which gives it more torque at low RPM, just because it cant do 20k dosent mean it'll fall to bits if it did lol

you need to think about your answers more
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Old 09-01-2003, 08:05 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

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Old 09-01-2003, 08:24 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

actully take that back, i did say T1, but for a diffrent application.. more suited to the T1.
BUT! i was surprised when i got no RPM gain for a 12.25x3.37 over a 13x4W it has its grunt level and it stays there
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Old 09-01-2003, 09:03 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

Originally posted by edible_engine
i do however recomend use ing fuel with only Klotz in it, no outher synthetics and NO CASTOR!!
At what mix? %?
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Old 09-01-2003, 09:06 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

hi guys,

btw, got the engine back a couple of weeks back, Weston pulled it down and inspected it, found nothing wrong with it so they reassembled it and sent it back to me.... I bought a T50 the day after I sent the V50 away and had been having a blast with it, same thing happened with the serious clunk between 9 and 12 as a clock would face you..... just seems to be something of this type of motor as both the engines run fine, they'll probably loosen up a bit more after some more runs...

I have the T50 in an Irvine Wildcard, awesome fun, completely too much power for the plane but it prop hangs at half throttle and will pull verticle super quick... not over heavy for the model with the cg in the factory position and it's designed for a .50 anyway.... great fun.

caio
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Old 09-01-2003, 09:51 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

Originally posted by edible_engine i do however recomend use ing fuel with only Klotz in it, no outher synthetics and NO CASTOR!! [/B]
Klotz...? I would never use Klotz in my engines... too many people had problems with it in my club a few years back...

And what's wrong with some castor? As long as you don't run it pure you're fine.

I currently run a 10% Synthglow-10% Castor mix in my West and it runs great... it actually runs better with some castor compared to full synthetic IMO...

This engine just needs a long break in, that's all... mine just keeps on getting better (which was something I wasn't expecting actually)...
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Old 09-02-2003, 08:02 AM
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Default West 50 is shafted

i flew both my T50 and T36 from the second starts, in fact, with the 36 i got 12.9k ( Leo 37 muffler ) on a Master 11x4 on the break in, and went straight into hang the first flight.
btw, the Leo muffler gives perfect throttling and good power
both my engines have a squeek as they go over the top hand cranking, but this is like the MVVS engines which also take a long time to break in, but last forever, the Wests just work better during this break in time than the MVVS
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Old 09-02-2003, 09:17 AM
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Default West 50 is shafted

5-15% nitro will do
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Old 09-02-2003, 12:18 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

Originally posted by edible_engine
5-15% nitro will do
Ok.. No oil then?
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Old 09-02-2003, 02:15 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

thats a BAD joke
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Old 09-02-2003, 05:25 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

Well... You were promoting Klotz-oil, but didn't say how much Klotz-oil that is good, so i had to ask...

I'm not using fuel with Klotz-oil, but the fuel i do use (local brand) have 15% Nitro and 15% synthetic oil...
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Old 09-02-2003, 06:05 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

thats a BAD joke
so's your knowledge of V1's lol
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Old 09-02-2003, 07:33 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

how well does a V1 throttle
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Old 09-02-2003, 08:28 PM
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Default West 50 is shafted

if you get the pipe and needles right, it'll throttle pretty good onto the pipe, hardly a funfly responce tho. in reality you have about 4 settings.. idle, mid throttle, off the pipe, on the pipe.
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