Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

NOS Injected into Scale engines

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Old 08-23-2003, 08:48 PM
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viperred
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Anyone ever tried running Nitrous Oxide through a scale model engine? If so does it work well. I know the fuel is already pretty combustable, but just wondering if this would work?

Paul
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Old 08-24-2003, 03:19 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

dunno. in scale as in gas or nitro?

would be much fun if it did work. it would be a spurt of power fly by then turn around and it would done run out. Or you would have to over prop engine so when it does hit you can benefit from the increase. But once off juice engine would be hating the load.

I have no idea and never tried but seems would be a pain messing around with it
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Old 08-24-2003, 03:58 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Doesn't seem like to much of a pain.. hell i'd rather burn up an engine in flight then smashing it into the deck.. that's how most engines die anyhow. I think it would be pretty lightweight.. as all you need is a very small NOS canister to rub into the carb of the engines. Would take some figuring out.. they've already done it as I searched goole on r/c boats and cars.. so what are all of us waiting for?

PA

Originally posted by FlooredCOBRA

I have no idea and never tried but seems would be a pain messing around with it
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Old 08-24-2003, 02:56 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Just don't see point in planes really. I rather spend money on a hot engine that way you have the power full time. Be much more beneficial than relying on a spurt of juice for a few seconds then go back to stock tuned engine.

I guess maybe to make one to see how it works would be cool. Just what would be point if your not racing or have anything to compare by.

Just my opinion though, maybe others would jump on this idea
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Old 08-24-2003, 03:20 PM
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Default 65% nitro

why not just run 65% nitro fuel??????
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Old 08-24-2003, 05:23 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

NOS doesn't ad "power", it ads oxygen. The extra power comes from the extra fuel you have to burn to get the air/fuel ratio back to optimum.

On NOS equiped cars, there is a valve that dumps more fuel when the NOS is activated. You'd have to do the same with a model engine or it would go lean instantly when you hit the NOS. If you had lightning reflexes and an inflight needle, you might get lucky one time out of 10/20/50??

On a glow powered engine, the only way to control the ignition timing is with plug heat, fuel composition, and compression. As soon as you dump all that extra fuel into the engine, my guess is it will start to pre-detonate. On cars running NOS, they have spark ignition, not glow, so they are able to control the spark advance. You wouldn't be able to on a glow engine.


Also the AMA safety code says that only air at atmospheic pressure can be used. Sure, not everybody is an AMA member, but I'm sure you'd see "NOS set-up for your plane" ads. You said you Googled them..I've never seen one advertised or used/

Boater has it in a nutshell...nitromethane does the same thing (ads oxygen to the fuel) as NOS, and it's a lot easier to implement on a model engine.
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Old 08-24-2003, 05:35 PM
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Default NOS in GLow Engine???

The comments by boater and Chuck Auger are right on the money!

I've built & run lots of Nitrous engines in Cars, Motorcycles, Snowmobiles, Jetski's and Outboards.

Not the way to go in Glow Engines - Get the same effect with Nitro
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Old 08-24-2003, 06:21 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

i used to see topics like that in the car forum. Or putting on a turbo charger or super charger on a 2 stroke. It just doesn't work.

Sounds cool though
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Old 08-24-2003, 10:58 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Oh well.. intersting to know though.

Originally posted by FlooredCOBRA
i used to see topics like that in the car forum. Or putting on a turbo charger or super charger on a 2 stroke. It just doesn't work.

Sounds cool though
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Old 08-25-2003, 04:18 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

These guys have a kit ready to go:

http://www.jagrc.com/
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Old 08-25-2003, 05:05 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

That picture reminds me of the Whiplash with turbine on it for some reason....
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Old 08-25-2003, 05:01 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

you'd be waaaay better off just buying some nitromethane and mixing that in with your gas the only problem is if it catches on fire it explodes!! unlike gas or nitros oxide.
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Old 08-25-2003, 11:55 PM
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Default Explode???

Nitromethane does not explode when burned, it's safer than gasoline, jeez, where do people get this off the wall crap.
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Old 08-26-2003, 12:32 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

lol my bad it doesn't explode but it's more torquey
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Old 08-26-2003, 12:41 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Yes, it is more torquey. Can actually run cooler if the right compression ratio is used. Wrong set-up can melt your engine, but that is true also with gas and alcohol. NHRA top fuel engines have no cooling other than fuel going through the engine.
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Old 08-26-2003, 12:45 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

there also only last one run anyways how would u use nitromethane in an r/c airplane? the more fuel u add the more nitromethane would be added? :S i dunno much about chemical power adders i'm a turbo kid
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Old 08-26-2003, 01:10 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Originally posted by red91sit
there also only last one run anyways how would u use nitromethane in an r/c airplane? the more fuel u add the more nitromethane would be added? :S i dunno much about chemical power adders i'm a turbo kid
Well, you fill the tank.

If you want to run 10% nitro, you fill the tank with 10% nitro fuel.

If you want to run 65% nitro, you fill the tank with 65% nitro fuel.
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Old 08-26-2003, 01:12 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Originally posted by red91sit
you'd be waaaay better off just buying some nitromethane and mixing that in with your gas the only problem is if it catches on fire it explodes!! unlike gas or nitros oxide.
Gas explodes. Nitrous oxide explodes. Nitromethane is almost impossible to ignite.
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Old 08-26-2003, 01:24 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

I say for more power buy a hot engine.

Add fuel and be happy
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Old 08-27-2003, 10:34 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

When George Aldrich was alive, I was speaking to him about such a system. I get these crazy ideas once and a while...

Like that truck set up, I also have some of these small NOS cartridges (my mom has a whipping cream machine that uses the NOS gas to whip the cream) and questioned about making a small injector to bleed off some gas into the intake of a two stroke engine.

George stated it had allready been tried (years ago), and within seconds the engine basically fell apart, they got a very good power increase for a few seconds though!

I think it can be made to work, but whats the use if you have to rebuild your engine every run?

AJC
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Old 08-27-2003, 12:42 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Two words : Propylene oxide. The chemical reation is the same as nitrous oxide , it releases its oxygen molecules under heat. Used it yrs ago in 1/2A speed , 70%nitro - 10%propylene oxide -20%castor, Mod AME w/custom 4.5X4 at 30k+. If I recall we used 4 or 5 head shims . Nasty stuff , once left the lid off the pint of PO & came back to almost half of my container gone ,very volatile, had to mix my fuel the day of use & keep sealed .
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Old 08-27-2003, 01:51 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

NOS does not do the same thing as nitromethane. Nitromethane primarily affects ignition timing, but does not provide any additional oxygen, as far as I know. NOS provides additional oxygen, which is the limiting factor in power output for internal combustion engines. It is true that you need to get more fuel in the chamber to take advantage of the additional oxygen. The NOS system that Kmot pointed us to seems to simply run a little rich when the NOS is not turned on, and also rely on increased muffler pressure to get more fuel when the NOS is provided. It shouldn't be too hard to come up with a crude system to provide some extra fuel with the NOS. You could have a separate fuel jet to shoot extra fuel into the carburetor when the NOS is turned on, maybe even pressurized by the NOS.

I would have guessed that the NOS would mess up ignition timing, as ChuckAuger suggested, but the people at Jagrc don't mention that as a problem.

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Old 08-27-2003, 02:19 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Yeah, I'm not a chemical engineer..I heard that about nitromethane and oxygen off of watching NHRA drag racing.. It might be bunk.

Here is a snip from a modeler who also claims to be a combustion engineer:

Nitromethane (CH3NO2) is a colorless liquid, sweet smelling, soluable in methanol, and normally stable- but with the chemical potential to detonate. When mixed in methanol it gives the mixture the "alcohol" smell and provides some oxygen for combustion beyond the induced air.
From This Article
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Old 08-27-2003, 05:20 PM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Some nitro methane contains up to 59% oxyegen :-D

About blowing the engine up nothing some forged connecting rods wouldn't fix lol
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Old 08-28-2003, 12:47 AM
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Default NOS Injected into Scale engines

Nitromethane IS an oxygen carrier.

Most "nitro" chemicals are, which is exactly the reason they are used extensively as rocket fuel and explosives.

It can be "sensitised" so that it becomes shock sensitive but it is completely safe in the form that we use it.
Sensitised? Don't store metals like sodium in the same closet as your nitro...

The IRA in Ireland used fertiliser as explosives for their bombing... another "nitro" based chemical.
The reason this stuff can be made to explode is that fuel and oxygen are combined in the same molecule (no need for a carb )
The oxygen is bonded to the molecule in the nitro group.

Nitromethane is:
H NO²
\ /
C
/ \
H H

Which is just standard bio-gas (methane), exept that one hydrogen atom in the molecule is substituted for a nitro group...

Ok, I see the molecule didn't quite work out allright, but you get the picture...
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