Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Speed Record measurements

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Old 02-12-2012, 02:07 PM
  #1  
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Default Speed Record measurements

Hey all,

Got a question to put and hopefully an answer will solve a problem I've got...
I'm putting on a event at my club here in U.K. to break some of the current U.K speed records for planes and helicopters (both in i.c. and electric power), in a straight line. The rules governing this are laid out in the 'Contest Rules' by our governing body over here, BMFA. These rules basically state that the time taken to fly over a 200 meter straight-line course is measured and thus the speed can then be calculated.. oh and there's a min and max height restriction also. Two methods are allowed for the timing... a manual system for speeds below 300 kph, which I have in place and is just a couple of fellas punching a button to stop and start a timer as the aircraft travel past the 200m markers... and then an automated system for speeds in excess of 300 kph. I know the manual system will be good enough for everything except the i.c. planes... the current U.K. record is just under the limitations of the manual system and was set a few years ago. The reason it hasn't been officially broken for awhiles is there isn't an automated timing system suitable for the task. Can you good people help with suggestions on what I need?
I've thought about using transponders (can't add any extra weight to the aircraft) and radar guns (only gives a peak speed, needs to be measured speed over 200m), and a pair of video cameras (too costly and would take too long to spool through the footage to make the timing measurements). So the only solution i can think of is a 'laser-curtain'.. sounds a bit science fiction, but i'm thinking of two devices each end of the course that project beams and the aircraft breaking these beams starts and stops a timer.... and maybe also give a reading of the models height.
If anyone can suggest other solutions i'd be very grateful, and where i could source the equipment would be a bonus.

Thanks
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

If this is for fun then a radar gun will be adaquate. For "official" runs you would do well to contact the FAI guys under F3s. Do a search under Euro Speed Cup and you will be on the right path. Those guys have a timing system that is second to none.

Over here we don't have all the high tech systems they use and are pretty content with a high quality radar gun for our speed runs... for the most part.

Search this site for all the fun we have here at the Carolina Speed Rally.

The Euro guys are top shelf but some of them are wound a little tight.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hey Vicman,
Cheers for the 'speedy' reply.
Radar guns, as I mentioned in the original post are not allowed for official speed measurements, and I've been on to the FAI already. All official speed attempts have to be documented and have their timing systems ratified, but to get my hands on these documents costs a heap of cash... i'm talking about many hundreds of Euros (FAI is not based in UK). Also, they replied saying I should just contact my tech officer at the BMFA (which I have) for help... he can't !
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

GPS???
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hey Jim,
I should have mentioned GPS in my original post .. can't use it for a couple of reasons; firstly we can't add any extra weight to the models, so no transponders or GPS devices, and secondly it's not accurate enough !
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

GPS does have some accuracy issues. If you guys are going for "official" records, you may be required to use "official" measurment procedures-could be a bit costly.

Jim
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Yeah, The problem is the Euro/FAI guys like to point out the errors of everyone else but won't share in how to join the club. After a while of trying to reason with them I just decided to have fun and F-them. I admire the things they accomplish and really like to see the planes and inovation they come up with but if they won't share...

I don't need the world to agree on .5mph to decide weather I am having a good time or not. Official isn't as official if nobody else has access to the method to verify. Even in the science world an experiment isn't proven till someone else can re-create it in another lab.

I say check speed the best way you can with the best equipment available and have FUN. Thats what it's all about anyway.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

We're expecting to have some costs of the equipment shared with our governing body, and by some sponsorship ... but kinda hoping a manufacturer would offer some assistance !
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:32 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

I think the timing system they use is VERY spendy. Might take a few years to pay off.

We are having fun with a $750 radar gun and calling it a good time. I give stickers for the event and call it a day. They guys who come out for it all have had a good time and so far return every year.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:20 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hey again Vickan, hear what you're saying... but the event my club intends is going to be an official event for official records, so I have to make sure nothing is left to chance. As I mentioned, I've the manual system already do the event will go ahead, but would really like to say to all the flyers attaining we can measure any speed. BTW, my clubs website is www.bmmfc.com
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:20 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Is there any bullet speed measuring equipment out there that might work for you??? I guess I'm think optical or laser based.

Ken
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:36 AM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hey Ken,

As far as I'm aware, bullet and other projectiles are measured for speed using high-speed video gear... I have looked into this area already and have been quoted in excess of £8000 for a pair of cameras to do the job... too much even for my club. Also, the time it would take to 'spool' through the footage to get a reading would be too long. Remember, this is for an event, with the expected numbers attending I need to have a system that gives readings really fast so we can't have flyers waiting.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:48 AM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

I was thinking there was a "photo eye" something or other that could be used?????? I know there are other bullet speed trap designs but it would be hard to fly through a 15 inch diameter loop. Maybe I'll cast about the web a bit and see what turn up.

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Old 02-16-2012, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hallo UK-flyboy,

we have in Germany a FAI speed record conform maesurment equipment for planes and helicopters.

Every year also in 2012 we have a FAI speed record flight weekend on a airbase in Germany. You can come across and all your records will be accepted for world or UK rekord.

All the paperwork and the maesurment of the modells will be made be our people. We have all the neccesary Officials on side.

We have additional 2 speed cups for training and optimiesing your modells.

Please give me a email for more details

f3d@gmx.de

I was 1 time in Middle Wallop on a British speed event - I won the big pott.

Best regards Michael

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Old 02-16-2012, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hey Michael,

I've just emailed you!

But in case you miss the mail I sent.... I really could do with equipment details... what you use and where to get the same for my clubs event. It's a kind offer you make to invite myself and others to your event, but we wish to hold a UK only event for the moment.



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Old 03-19-2012, 06:45 AM
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hallo UK flyboy,

please give us more details on your speed cup.

If I have time I will com across to your event.

Best regards Michael
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hey Michael,
If you go to my clubs website www.bmmfc.com you'll find quite a bit of info regarding the Festival Of Speed. It's being held on 22nd April and is an open event... so long as you can prove you have insurance. In this country being a member of the BMFA shows you have adequate insurance, also we ask you have at least a BMFA 'A' certificate to fly.

Regards,

Rob 

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Old 03-23-2012, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hallo Rob,

sorry on this weekend I am in Modena for Q 40 pylon racing.

I can´t find the modell specifications and regulations .

Maybe next year.

Best regards Michael















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Old 03-23-2012, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

The model requirements can be found in the 'Contest Rules 2a' on the BMFA website. Basically, so long as it's an Rc model, and meets the weight and motor size restrictions, and the pilot has the insurance  and BMFA 'A' certificate.. it'll be fine.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:49 AM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hallo Rob,

as far as I can see you will follow the FAI rules on your speed contest.

What measurement is in place ?

Is it not possible to chanche the date -we want to come from the continent, but this weekend is very bad for us.

Best regards Michael
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: Speed Record measurements

Hey again Michael,

The only timing system we have in place for this first event is a manual one. So under BMFA rules it is only good for ratifying speeds below 300kph. We are though trying to get an automatic timing system that enable speeds above 300kph to be timed and ratified, but so far we are having problems finding where to get the equipment to do this... unless you can suggest someone? The date for the event is now confirmed and can not be changed... unless the weather forces it's cancellation, in which case it'll be rescheduled for later in the year.

Regards,

Rob
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