Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Plans?

Reply
Old 03-15-2012, 06:41 PM
  #1
dbacque
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,144
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Plans?

I've been wanting to build a speed plane for a while now. I've come close to buying a Screamin Demon kit any number of times but I'd really like to just build from scratch rather than from a kit. I've got a crazy stupid original design taking form in the depths of my brain but I figure a building a proven design first is always a good move. I think I'd prefer a standard planform over a delta but I'm still open to ideas. I've been digging for plans but haven't come up with anything cool enough yet and I'd like more aerobatic capabilites than a quickie type plane. Something that I can go fast with and really slam around.

So I'm wondering, what's available out there in the plans world. Any suggestions?

Oh yes, I'd like something that can handle a Jett 50 or 60.

Dave
dbacque is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 03:59 PM
  #2
iron eagel
 
iron eagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,250
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

If you take a look at the first page of this post there is a pdf of the plans for a SD
(Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6034143/tm.htm
iron eagel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 06:33 PM
  #3
dbacque
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,144
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

Cool! You know, I hadn't thought to look but it turns out Mike sells plans for the SD.

Thanks.

Any other plans out there folks?

Dave
dbacque is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 10:12 PM
  #4
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

It's about as simple as building an Ugly Stick, or Ultra Sport with a thin airfoil and simple mods to clean up external linkages.
I flew a "hot rodded" MidWest Aerosport .20 [looks like an Ugly Stick] with a thinner wing, a cowled and piped Webra .50 for many years. The landing gear were removable.
Shoot for an airfoil that is 8-10% thick and be prepared to do some carpentry [modeling] in the wing saddle area.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 05:54 AM
  #5
dbacque
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,144
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

That's about what my plan is right now. I've always loved the Hots, built lots of them, and I think I'm going to build one with a thinned wing, and cowled engine. I'm also planning to change the aileron set up a bit Stock the ailerons just come right up near the fuselage and there's no fixed TE section, leaving a gap at the fuselage. I'll move the ailerons farther out a bit and put a fixed TE that seals up against the fuse. Landing gear will be removable and have racing wheels.

My current Hots with it's 18% airfoil and an OS 46 is about the fastest sport plane at the field so I figure it'll only take a few mods to make it really move. I had drawn it up with 12% but you thing I should go thinner? I'm not worried about insanely fast, just faster and still Hotsish. A buddy has promised to donate a Rossi to go on it. This thing is starting to take shape, I think I'll let the SD with a Jett wait a little longer.

Dave
dbacque is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:14 AM
  #6
smoknrv4
 
smoknrv4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: RR#7 Aylmer, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,217
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

Sounds cool, keep us in the loop please.
smoknrv4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 09:44 AM
  #7
iron eagel
 
iron eagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,250
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

The thinnest wing you can get would produce the lowest amount of frontal area.
iron eagel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 11:05 AM
  #8
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: dbacque

That's about what my plan is right now. I've always loved the Hots, built lots of them, and I think I'm going to build one with a thinned wing, and cowled engine. I'm also planning to change the aileron set up a bit Stock the ailerons just come right up near the fuselage and there's no fixed TE section, leaving a gap at the fuselage. I'll move the ailerons farther out a bit and put a fixed TE that seals up against the fuse. Landing gear will be removable and have racing wheels.

My current Hots with it's 18% airfoil and an OS 46 is about the fastest sport plane at the field so I figure it'll only take a few mods to make it really move. I had drawn it up with 12% but you thing I should go thinner? I'm not worried about insanely fast, just faster and still Hotsish. A buddy has promised to donate a Rossi to go on it. This thing is starting to take shape, I think I'll let the SD with a Jett wait a little longer.

Dave
That sounds like a great plan since you already have lots of experience building The Hots.
Q500 wings have 12% thick airfoils and they are pretty fast. A high revving Rossi with a racing prop will match up well with that. You can build a 12% wing with standard materials / methods without worrying too much about strength.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 12:31 PM
  #9
dbacque
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,144
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

Grin! Experience, that's a good word for it. I'm on my 6th Hots in the last 10 years. They're like potato chips, one just isn't enough. I'm pretty rough on them but they're cheap, easy to build and, well, hot! You've always got to have a plane to do stupid stuff with without worrying about it. I can bury a Hots so deep into the ground that I need a shovel to recover the engine and just laugh about it (that was the fate of #5 last year).

My buddy has named the project. I said I like the Hots but I'd like something a little ... And he jumped in with "Hotser!"

So that's the name, it's the Hotser!

I've got the plans just about worked out and I should be cutting balsa in a few days. All I've got to do now is get this guy to dig the Rossi out of the black hole that is his garage. That could take a while.

I'll drop some notes out there as it goes along. This should be fun!

Dave
dbacque is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 08:27 PM
  #10
dbacque
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,144
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

My buddy just dropped a couple of goodies on me. A Webra Speed .40 Pylon engine and a NIB Rossi 40 FI RC. He said he'd had some problems with the Webra Dynamix slide carb. He says the slide does not seal well so the engine can not be shut off via the throttle and he had some tuning issues with it.

I'm leaning towards the Webra if I can make it run reliably. Anybody else have carb problems on this engine?

Thanks,
Dave
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Jh16976.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	140.7 KB
ID:	1744870  
dbacque is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 09:51 PM
  #11
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

No carb problems because I convert all my speed engines to venturi.
I don't have any problems with shutoff, either......they always do....eventually.....

Webras Forever...!!![X(]!!!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sq45953.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	74.5 KB
ID:	1744881  
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 11:46 PM
  #12
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

[link=http://youtu.be/J-KnwuBBH8E]Rockin' Webra[/link]

Screamin' Demon delta pulled around by happy Webra .50
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 09:12 AM
  #13
smoknrv4
 
smoknrv4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: RR#7 Aylmer, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,217
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

Sounds awesome CP, Thanks for the vid.
smoknrv4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 09:26 AM
  #14
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

I finally discovered Windows movie maker and that short clip only took about 10 minutes to upload on my dial up. In the past it always took 4 hours to upload 1 minute's worth of video and there were more failed attempts than successes.
I set it for about 1/4th the amount of bits as the "full strength" original footage and it seems good enough for something like this.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 10:41 AM
  #15
iron eagel
 
iron eagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,250
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

It was a great video thanks for taking the time to post it.
iron eagel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 01:11 PM
  #16
dbacque
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,144
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

Man that sounds so cool! I can't wait to start running this engine.

I just finished the previous project so I'll start cutting wood for the Hotser this week.

You mentioned "simple mods to clean up the external linkage." What are you doing to the tail linkages? Got a picture?

Thanks,
Dave
dbacque is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 01:45 PM
  #17
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

Here's a drawing of how to do a split elevator linkage. K&S sells a small strip of brass about 1/16" thick x 1/2" wide for a couple of bucks. A numbered drill index is handy for drilling the clevis hole. Harbor Freight used to sell an index for $10.
Use real silver solder, the stuff that needs a propane torch.

V-tails can be totally concealed too. They are tricky to set up. With them you bring both torque arms close together and have them share a common clevis. This only works with speedplanes that only need very little elevator movement because this linkage design naturally binds if pushed too far.

The aft end of the Speedplane's fuselage needs to extend well past the elevator hingeline to make this style of linkage possible.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Wu60557.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	65.6 KB
ID:	1745109  
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 02:44 PM
  #18
dbacque
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,144
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

Ah, that's where I thought you were going. Can't do it on the current design, I'll just have to hang the pushrods and horns out in the breeze and save internal linkage for another day. I was hoping you were talking about hoods, may still do something like that.

What kind of props am I going to want to be running on the unmodified Webra Speed .40 with a tuned pipe?

Dave
dbacque is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 03:16 PM
  #19
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

I don't have any experience with that engine. High Plains or Daven would know. If you ask in the pylon forum, there will be some old timers who know.

Internal linkages are just a tiny part of all the things that add up together to go fast. The faster you go, the more critical things like that get.

At 100 mph an exposed control linkage might eat up .0001 HP but at 200 mph it might eat up 100 times more...?
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 03:26 PM
  #20
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

About the Webra pylon prop........if your airframe isn't sleek enough, the optimum prop will be different than what a pylon guy would recommend. Also, the pylon guy needs less pitch and a little more diameter to accelerate throughout the course. For flat out speed after a dive you want the least amount of diameter to pull the plane efficiently and the most pitch that the engine can handle in it's "happy" rpm range. At least the pylon guys can tell you what rpm these engines typically failed at. Typically you want to run a little bit below that but if you take the time to lighten the piston that goes a long ways toward raising the red line of any engine.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 03:56 PM
  #21
dbacque
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,144
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Plans?

Cool beans. We're getting close to something stupid.

Thanks,
Dave
dbacque is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:44 AM.