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Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Hotser

Old 03-17-2013, 06:53 PM
  #26  
dbacque
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ORIGINAL: combatpigg

You'll have to post some video of this one once you get nice and relaxed with it...[once you get a few beers in you] and have got a badazz routine worked out with it.
LOL!! That was my first really great laugh of the day! Sorry, no flying after a few beers. But I don't mind more than a few AFTER I fly!

More news to come, I'll post pictures as the cowl gets built. Tomorrow I plan to start building the blank. I hope to have it carved within the week. I know better than to make predictions, especially as part of the week is claimed with other issues and almost a year ago I said I'd be back on this project soon.

But dang, it's going to be fun when it flies!

Dave
Old 03-17-2013, 07:27 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: Hotser

I tried using common lumber [like fir or hemlock] for a 1/2A Ultimate cowl plug but I couldn't get the plastic from the oven to the vacuform jig fast enough.
If the plug was made from pre-heated solid steel bar stock, then it could have worked better....
Old 03-18-2013, 12:51 PM
  #28  
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The plugs I've used were just carved and sanded from balsa with no problem. One thing that a friend told me recently was he had a part that didn't form fully so he pulled out a heat gun and gave it a little extra attention for a perfect canopy.

Dave
Old 03-18-2013, 01:32 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: Hotser

Slightly off topic, but on a related note I just learned you can hit cheap ARF fuselage glass/polyester layups with a heat gun and tweak them too (from HET in this case.. "High End Technology" my arse).
Old 03-18-2013, 06:41 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: Hotser

But why would a high quality, composite, factory built job need to be tweaked? They have to be straighter than the wimpy balsa stuff that is built in a spare bedroom, right?

Dave
Old 03-20-2013, 06:27 PM
  #31  
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Here is the blank for the cowl plug completed and tacked glued in place. It is ready to start carving. The blank was built up from 4 sections of balsa 2x2.

The vertical seam is glued. The horizontal seam is fiberglass outdoor carpet tape. The ply disk on the front is also split. I decided to make the cowl join horizontal instead of vertical since the engine is side mounted. This way, one seam will be removed for the engine cutout.

I’m really starting to think I will have to form the ABS cowl in two halves. We’ll see. I'll definitely try it as one piece first.

I really like the way the 4 piece build up let me just center the ply disk on one end using the seams for alignment. Then I put bolts in the engine mounting blind nuts, scribed lines and then used those to get vertical and horizontal centering lines that line up exactly with the engine center. Line up the blank joints on the centering lines and the spinner ring is in exactly the right place! I’ve been aggravating over how to do this for a year now and it worked perfectly!

Tomorrow night, I get after it with the razor plane!

Dave
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:24 PM
  #32  
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Okay, I couldn't wait until tomorrow to start carving. Here is the cowl plug roughed in.

I still need to do the transition from faceted to round and then sanding. I wish it didn’t have to transition to round, that will destroy the whole Hots theme, there shouldn’t be a curve on it. But it’s got to be done to mate up to the spinner. I thought about increasingly faceted, sort of a fractal front end, until the number of facets was close enough to round. It would be awesome but absolutely impossible to do close nicely without CNC. I’m still thinking…

Dave
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:22 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Hotser

Dave, if you round off the least amount of area as possible [just to blend into the spinner] it will look nice and "Hotsy".
Don't forget that once you get an engine installed much of the cowl gets wiped out.
I might be wrong but I don't think a cowl is worth the effort here. It's great to see you going through the steps to build one but I can't picture much more than the "chin" portion of the cowl survive the "hogging out" required to stuff an engine in it.
Old 03-21-2013, 02:10 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: Hotser

Naaaah, the Hots looks better with a long spinner, that follows the taper of the front fuselage, blended in nicely from the spinner backplate to the firewall...

At least, I think it does...I'm building a Super Hots too at the moment... ;-)
Old 03-21-2013, 12:46 PM
  #35  
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CP, that's the plan. Just enough rounding to get it to mate to the spinner. I was just thinking out loud about how cool it would be to do it with facets.

At one time I had considered a fully cowled engine like on a C/L Speed plane but decided I didn't want to go to that much work. This isn't really much work, making a cowl is a lot of fun to me. I think there will be enough left to make it worth the effort, even if just for style points.

Actually, I don't much care for cowled Hots'. I love the original but this one had to have it.

Dave
Old 03-21-2013, 05:00 PM
  #36  
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Okay, here's the shaped plug for the cowl.

It will need some additions after it's removed to account for fuselage overlap and to raise it off the bed of the vacuum former to help prevent webbing. Right now I've got filler on it and it'll be getting a little more sanding and then some sealing.

Oh boy, this is getting exciting!

Dave
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:44 PM
  #37  
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Lookin' good..!

I've heard of guys taking a plastic drink bottle that is a fairly close fit and heat shrinking it around the cowl plug...for a perfect fit.
These are probably the same guys who could beat me at golf or billiards with an axe handle.
Old 03-22-2013, 02:55 PM
  #38  
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I guess this is the project that was never meant to be.

I’m so sick I could just die. I had a CA accident when tack gluing the cowl. I used a new brand of CA and the bottle let loose with a tremendous amount when I wanted a drop. Oops, too late, it bonded instantly.

Well, trying to break the cowl loose didn’t go well. And that’s the understatement of the century. When I couldn’t get it to break loose I used a razor saw to cut as deeply into the joint as I could and then gave it a good hit with the heel of my hand. The fuselage is now in splinters. The wing only has a bunch of sheeting damage.

So it looks like the Hotser will require major surgery to excise the tail surfaces and other parts from the fuselage, then build a new fuselage along with wing repairs. Or toss it all in the trash.

I’m just sick!

I guess the good news is that if I ever decide to resurrect this project, I’ll already have the cowl plug built!

Dave
Old 03-22-2013, 07:24 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Hotser

Dang Man...I'd go on a drunken rampage right about now.....a Total Chimpout..!!!
Go watch that scene in Animal House when Blutarski [Belushi] rallies the troops at the Delta House...that ought to fire you up enough to keep at it...!

[link]http://youtu.be/V8lT1o0sDwI[/link]
Old 03-23-2013, 07:15 AM
  #40  
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Well that's very close to what I did last night!

After it shattered, I resisted the urge to beat the remains into balsa pulp. I calmly placed all the pieces right there on the floor so nothing would be lost or damaged further. I mixed up a great big martini, sat down and made that post. That was not the last drink of the evening! I did look at the results a couple of times but didn't do a thing with it. I really thought that the wing and tail surfaces was all that was salvagable.

After I had tried a few times to break the blank loose, I put one wing tip on the floor and then I popped the nose a good one. That was my mistake. The fuse is just glued to the wing sheeting and it couldn't take the jolt. Since this is a one piece airplane, when the wing joint failed it took the wing apart in some places and took the fuse apart in different places. The top and one side of the fuse were splintered. Center wing sheeting and a couple of ribs were splintered.

This morning I went out for breakfast and lots and lots of coffee. It is a nasty day so I came home and started doing repairs. I've got the wing repairs nearly completed. Replaced the broken ribs, worked some of the sheeting back into place. Just a couple of pieces of new sheeting to go.

The fuse was a real mess. But when I started looking at which parts could be saved, I decided that if I could figure out how to fix the broken fuse side then much of the airframe could be salvaged. I was able to jigsaw the pieces back together. With a few internal braces it might be okay. The entire top half of the front end will be rebuilt. And of course the wing reattached. It'll be back together before the day is over but much worse for the wear.

When I looked at the back side of the cowl blank I was amazed. The gush of CA was even bigger than I thought and fully half of the blank was solidly glued to the firewall. I can't believe I got it off at all. And NOW I find out that this brand of CA has applicator tips to prevent this kind of thing. I had no idea that the bottle had such a large opening.

Disheartening but not the end.

Dave
Old 03-23-2013, 08:07 AM
  #41  
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Default RE: Hotser

Dave, I'm glad to hear that it's not a "total". Razor sawing through a seam of solid CA would be pretty tough without tearing something up.
I'd be tempted to fiberglass or tissue the front of the fuselage [after you get it back together] if you're building this thing for 150 mph snap rolls.
When I want to temporarily attach a cowl plug to the firewall I tape off the firewall and the fuselage sides with clear packing tape. Use the thinnest, cheapest dollar store tape. Then I use contact adhesive to glue either a foam or a balsa "blank" to the fuselage for final shaping of the cowl plug. Once the plug looks good, then I tape it off as nicely as I can, then apply 3 layers of 2 oz cloth with a generous overlap of the fuselage sides. The hardest part is breaking the cured part loose from the firewall, so I usually remove as much of the plug material as possible through the front of the cowl. Once the cowl is safely removed, then the imperfections can be filled with Bondo and prepped for paint.
Not as slick as vacuforming and definitely heavier.
Old 03-23-2013, 11:23 AM
  #42  
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ORIGINAL: dbacque

But why would a high quality, composite, factory built job need to be tweaked? They have to be straighter than the wimpy balsa stuff that is built in a spare bedroom, right?

Dave
You'd think! But..

My Whiplash lies forgotten in a dark corner somewhere downstairs - each wing panel had a major twist, the vertical fins were cupped, the hinges so stiff it would use up 100 oz-in of torque just to overcome the hinge material, and the elevons were twisted.

The model I posted about, a HET ME-163, has a twisted vertical fin and had a concave dimple in the fuselage about 2" in diameter. They're not expensive so I didn't expect perfection, but I expected a bit better than the crappy glass/polyester layup job on the fuse. Even the motor mount is crooked.. left and up thrust. I guess I could just plug the wings in upside down and fly inverted.

I have a Ukraine made composite F5B downstairs with nice CNC billet mold wings with live hinging.. and twisted ailerons and elevator. I think I can massage them straight with heat and patience.

Yet.. my crude kit bash Screamin Demon .65 with dacron covered balsa elevons is perfectly straight after three years, as is my prototype Demon after 5 years which I am just cleaning up and checking over for the next flying season. It's starting to get ugly so I know it will never break or crash. Only the nice ones do.

>>> Back to the topic at hand, your cowl - that sucks!!! CA can be a blessing or a curse. Hope you get the model sorted out. When you're done I would say you will have something similar in intent and abilities to the Scream Machine/Flying Machine genre. Should be a riot to fly.



Old 03-23-2013, 12:14 PM
  #43  
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Looks like it's not over yet. Over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

The patient was in surgery for 6 1/2 hours but it looks like she'll survive.

It is back together but unfortunately much worse for the wear. To add insult to injury, it was the first Hots I’d ever built where the front top of the fuselage was perfectly straight. Turns out this time I used a warped piece of balsa and now the nose is bowed to match my previous ones. I didn’t notice it until I had the part installed.

I've always tack glued pieces on and then popped them off. I usually use a few drops of thick CA but the alignment of this part was so difficult I put it on with a little bit of double stick tape and adjusted until it was aligned. Then I was going to just put two or three tiny drops of thin CA but it turned out the nozzle on this new glue was more like a fire hose than an eye dropper. I knew instantly that I was doomed.

Can't seem to upload the photo right now, Servor Error. Will try later.

Dave
Old 03-23-2013, 05:57 PM
  #44  
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Sounds like it will live - good news!

One of my many half-finished projects is a Super Hots. Its the fuselage where I ground to a halt, I had a heck of a time getting the rear end straight and even to my liking. It would come together with modest effort, the wing is done and covered in 21st Century fabric already. Hmm..
Old 03-23-2013, 06:19 PM
  #45  
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Hotses is fun! I've had 6 stock versions and now this variation. I've seen several of the other versions around and they all fly like bandits.

By the way, my original plan was to build a Screamin' Demon with an LX .60. But I decided that I should do something moderately in between my 117 mph Hots and the SD. That's where the Hotser idea was born.

Next in line after The Hotser is built, I've got a complex 2 meter pattern plane to build. But after that will be the Screamin' Demon. Once again, thanks for giving me the plans as I love scratch building. I'll be posting news on that one in a year or so. (Or more, if this project is any indication)

Dave
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:26 AM
  #46  
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Server is working again. Here's the repair.

This picture also shows the reduced aileron size. On The Hots they are full length but I had flutter problems on a couple of them.

Dave
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:09 AM
  #47  
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My Hots with a Picco .40 would buzz the ailerons at top speed. I stopped with the high speed level/diving flight pretty quick. The final flight was interesting.. I had made a radial mount for the Picco, and during one flight I noticed the throttle wasn't responding, of course it was stuck at full bore, so I just kept lopping and turning and burning up speed. The noise from the engine got odder and odder.. but finally it died and I got it down to find the engine holding on with one bolt and rotated nearly 180 degrees on the firewall. It would have been tougher to land if the engine had fallen off completely, not sure I can control a model gliding backwards. I gave the model to a buddy after that, but only because he was Jonesing for it and had nothing else to fly at the time. I look forward to the day I get the Super Hots finished.
Old 03-24-2013, 08:05 AM
  #48  
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I'm on Hots #6 and building #7. I've only had flutter problems on two of them and the current one was the worst. I upgraded pushrods. Eventually discovered that flex in the elevator joiner was the culprit so I went to dual pushrods on the elevator. Did everything that I could but every time I'd solve one and go faster another flutter would pop up. I finally narrowed it down to the last problem being flex in the balsa aileron stock. So I added counterweights on the ailerons and it solved the problem. I can now do full power dives from way up there and absolutely no flutter. I guessed at the size and the weights, got several flights before I got a little bit of flutter. Increased the arm length and it's never fluttered again.

That's the reason that I shortened up the ailerons on The Hotser and went with .60 size torque rods. The elevator joiner is also made from .125" music wire and seated into ply insets in the elevator halves. There is no flex in this system!

Dave
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:40 AM
  #49  
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So today was spent putting the finishing touches on the cowl plug and doing filling and sanding on the plane. When I finally decided I couldn't wait any longer and the sealer on the plug had to be dry enough, I set up the vacuum former. It usually takes a few tries to get things right but here is the first copy off the plug!

I was going to make a second one as I cut the fuse overlap a little short on the bottom. First attempt I didn't get it hot enough. Second attempt I got it too hot and did some damage to the plug. The heat damaged the filler and pulled off some of the sealer. I'll fix that, I just glassed the thing!

I'm really pleased and I was able to pull it as a single piece so there is no join.

Dave
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:57 PM
  #50  
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Congratulations..!
That looks like a durable weight of plastic, too.
A real "Do It All" competition fun fly event between the Scream Machine, the Flying Machine, Hots, etc. would have the planes perform the rulebook tasks PLUS get clocked for high speed and / or timed pylon laps.
Last time I looked the AMA records for competition Fun Flyers were hard to believe. Lots of fun but the interest died out and guys switched to 3D.

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