Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

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Old 04-14-2012, 07:51 PM
  #1
dbacque
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Default Hotser

I've always liked Dan Santich's original Hots. I've built 7 of them through the years. As I destroyed them and replaced them, they've gotten lighter and faster. My latest Hots came out at just over 3 lbs and with the OS .46 it is quick. But I've been wanting to build something really fast. Finally I decided that instead of an all out speed plane, I'd just build something faster, something "Hotser". It's not going to be as fast as the things I read about here but I think it'll be a good next step.

The Hots, the original purpose built Fun Fly plane, has a thick airfoil, nearly 20%. The first thing I did was thin this down. I shrunk the original rib template down to something that looked good and it turned out at 11.5%. The difference between the two templates is impressive. Instead of a flat firewall for the front end, I planning on a spinner and cowl. I was originally thinking no landing gear but finally decided to go with racing wheels and gear.

My pal Scott came up with a Webra Speed .40 Pylon engine for it (Thanks Scotty!) and I've got a pipe and header for it on the way. I recently aquired a large collection of contest balsa from an estate auction so the Hotser will be built mostly from 4 - 6 lb balsa.

So far, ribs have been cut, the fuselage is framed and this evening I started construction on the wing. (Don't hold your breath though, I've been pretty slow on building lately).

It's not going to be an all out speed plane but it should be a barrel of fun.

Dave
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Hotser

That's a good looking set of ribs, I'll bet you are nicely rewarded. It's not as easy to build light when you build thin for speed. That sounds bassackwards, but that's what I've found.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: Hotser

You may find that the OS will actually run harder then the Webra. When I got back into pylon I dug out one of my old Webra Q500 engines and got smoked. Now with a Rossi 45 VP, I do the smoking LOL. Building that wing light and strong shouldn't be an issue if you are willing to put in some extra effort. I would build the spars out of two peices of wood. Say the spars now are 1/4 sq. Take 2 peices of 1/8X1/4 and laminate them together with some 3K CF tow between. Then as you do the wing sheeting add another cord of the 3K between the spar and sheeting. For the first couple rib bays use 1/8" vertical shear web then 3/32 and at the tip 1/16. This eliminates any stress risers. Glass the center with multiple layers of 3/4 oz cloth starting with a 1" strip, then 2", 3" 4" and 5".
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: Hotser

Shawn the Truss design is much stronger than sheer webbing...
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:45 AM
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Airraptor,

Please elaborate on the truss design.

Thanks
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: airraptor

Shawn the Truss design is much stronger than sheer webbing...
Yes I agree , I suggested the webbing as it is easier to do and easier to taper off to evenly spread the load. I actually still perfer a foam wing for speed applications but that is a whole another thread LOL

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Old 04-15-2012, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: Hotser

The cleanest and fastest of the Hots is the
Hotselliptic designed in the early 80's by John
Bech-Hansen. The plans are still available.
Ralph
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:44 PM
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This is true but it wouldn't match my first 6 Hots'.

The wing is built, it was too windy to fly yesterday so I had to find something else to do. It does have progressive shear webs.

Dave
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Hotser

Looks great David..!

What went into it..?
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: Hotser

Ribs and sheeting are 1/16" contest balsa. TE is 1/4" square balsa and leading edge is carved from 1/2" x 1" contest balsa. The spars are full length 1/4" spruce, one piece wing tip to wing tip. Center bay has two 1/32" ply shear webs. The next two bays on each side have one 1/32" ply shear web and 1/16" balsa webs out from there. Finished it measures exactly 11.5% thickness.

Wing tips go on tonight.

Dave
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: Hotser

Sounds like a great recipe.
If you fly it "nicely" like a speed plane, it wont need to be as strong as a pylon racer.
The engine mount / nose need to be strong regardless though.
I've grabbed a running engine with a pair of channel locks at the upper cylinder and noticed an improvement in rpm. The engine was on a weak plastic mount.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: combatpigg

...I've grabbed a running engine with a pair of channel locks at the upper cylinder and noticed an improvement in rpm. The engine was on a weak plastic mount.
Far freakin' out CP. That has to be the single most savvy, effortless, instant setup optimization check I have heard in years.

I am stunned that this simple and effective technique never occurred to me.
Stunned I say, shocked, mortified, devastated, demoralized, depressed, and downright disgusted.

I'd hang it all up and take up knitting or basket weaving from now on instead, but thanks to you, its clear to me now that I'd suck at that too, for all the same reasons. [X(]
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:21 PM
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I've added ply doublers to the fuse sides, I started adding them on my third Hots. They're not on the original plans but these little guys really need them. The nose has the standard Hots ply floor and 1/4" ply firewall. The Webra has a radial backplate mount so no plastic mount, plus it'll move the weight of the engine back a little.

I heard form my brother and the Sykosis that you built, the Post Office mangled, I repaired and mods that he made to it is flying the happy skies of Louisiana. He's switched it back to an .074 and made a new glass cowl set up like you had it. He did something else in the nose but I don't remember what. It's been such a hit at the flying field that two more will be started soon by guys that I used to fly with 40 years ago back in the Cajun homeland. He's having a blast with the Yours, Mine and Ours Sykosis and sends a big thank you to the Combat Pigg!

Dave
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: Hotser

Quote:
ORIGINAL: C_Roundy

Quote:
ORIGINAL: combatpigg

...I've grabbed a running engine with a pair of channel locks at the upper cylinder and noticed an improvement in rpm. The engine was on a weak plastic mount.
Far freakin' out CP. That has to be the single most savvy, effortless, instant setup optimization check I have heard in years.

I am stunned that this simple and effective technique never occurred to me.
Stunned I say, shocked, mortified, devastated, demoralized, depressed, and downright disgusted.

I'd hang it all up and take up knitting or basket weaving from now on instead, but thanks to you, its clear to me now that I'd suck at that too, for all the same reasons. [X(]
Howdy Chuck.....don't they sell a kit for VW engines that stabilize the cylinders..?

I've had it in the back of my mind to try it on a plane. I've got a Cyclon .061 that would be a good engine to try this idea on.

I'm not so sure how repeatable the results of this idea is. I think you would need a thin steel strap like hose clamp material to hug the cylinder and tie it off to a rigid standoff on the firewall.

I can foresee more clutter in an already cluttered engine compartment, but if there's a will, there's a way.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:22 PM
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Dave, that's a great story about the Psychosis. It sat in my rafters like an oil soaked ugly duckling for so long.
I was like this plane's Slumlord and you guys gave her a new life.....
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:17 PM
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Default RE: Hotser

Change of plans, again. Yet another engine just walked in the door. A friend called and said he had an engine for me. I just picked up a Jett SJ 50 R/C! And it was a steal of a deal.

This is the third engine targeted for this plane and it's only half built. First I was loaned the Rossi .40. Then I was loaned the Webra Speed .40. Now I've got my own Jet .50. Oooh baby, baby, baby!

Dave
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:24 PM
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You will love the Jett .50 on your Hots! I have a Hots 60 that I built last year, stock airfoil, but lightened up a bit by skeletenizing it as well as the fuselage. Mine is powered by a Jett .90L and it moves out real well for such a thick airfoil! The best part of this combo is the instantaneous throttle response that the Jett motors have...you just can't come close with any other motors that spin the same rpm's! Have fun with it!!! -Craig
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:25 PM
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So I'm not the only one that likes to overpower Hots'. I'll bet that green devil goes!

Dave
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Hotser

I tried all kinds of combos on the original Hots.
OPS with the boat timed sleeve and a Prather
pipe on one and it mostly sounded like the clutch
was slipping. Probably the best was a modified
Fox .45 piped. None of my seven variations was
as light as yours nor as thin, so I bet you would
win that race for sure. This looks like a fun project
and you are doing it up right. FUN !
Ralph
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:20 PM
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I keep checking back; any progress to report?
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:17 PM
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I've been meaning to post but life has gotten in the way. The plane is built, the engine is aquired, radio is installed, engine is on test stand and I'm ready to start working on the tuned pipe. This all happened quickly, a week or two. Then, like I said, life got in the way. Things came to a halt and now I'm heading out of town for a well deserved retreat (Junction, Junction!!!) One quick project when I get back, my Epsilon needs a new engine. Then it's back to the Hotser. Tune up the engine, tune the pipe length, add pipe mounts to the fuse and it'll be ready for covering.

Oh yeah, there will also be some time spent working on a cowl. First I'll carve a plug, they I'll attempt to vacuum form a cowl from 1/16" ABS.

As soon as the pipe is adjusted and mounted there will be some in the bones pictures posted (less cowl).

Airframe changes for wing thickness, wing changes for fixed TE and other changes for cleanup have been very interesting. This plane is going to be one fast Hots! I flew the standard #6 Hots Sunday and got the blood pumping again.

Soon, soon! I promise!

Dave

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Old 03-17-2013, 11:26 AM
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It's been a long wait, as I said last time, life has really gotten in the way. This project has been on the back burner for nearly a year after being conceived and built up in just a couple of weeks. Then my Epsilon daily flyer needed an engine upgrade, it was more work than I expected. Then an engine flight out put my Super Skybolt down in the deep weeds and I had some serious repairs to do. Then I found that my Epsilon really needed some major work and a recovering job after only 4 years of heavy use (go figure!) Okay, it's finally time to work on the Hotser. Oh wait, non-RC life got in the way for a while, and that's the worst of all!

But it's back in the front of the queue and work has been done. In the intervening many months, I have found myself the owner of a Jett Q500 engine so of course that is what will go on the Hotser. Since it's not a true race plane, I've swapped the Throttle Body Air Valve for the Jett red carburetor for better sport plane handling. On the test stand the engine was showing great promise. It was ready, the pipe had been tuned (the stock tuned muffler does not fit the airplane). I got that finished, put the flight prop on and it promptly threw a rod! The top end of the rod split vertically. Another delay! Dub Jett helped me out and did some beautiful work restoring the engine, what great customer support. He could have sold me new piston and cylinder but he fixed a bent sleeve, re-lapped and re-honed everything, tested the engine and he says it's running strong.

I've just finished re-working the throttle linkage, installation of the pipe mount and a few other details.

So here is the picture that's nearly a year overdue. The Hotser, in the bones. Pardon the cell phone pic. My old digital camera finally bit the big one.

The outwardly noticable changes from the original Hots are the drastically thinned airfoil (well, maybe not noticable in the picture), the shortened ailerons (dang, also not visible in the grainy cell phone photo!), the carbon LG, the racing wheels and of course the Jett power package. There other, non-visible, internal changes.

What's next? Next I pull the engine and start working on a plug for the cowl. Then vacuumforming the ABS cowl and fitting it. At that point it's covering time. Oh, still have to make the hatch cover and mountings.

I can hardly wait. I've always loved The Hots. It's fast and you can really slam it around. This thinned, lightened and upgraded version should be a ball.

Dave
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:56 PM
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Looks good Dave..!

The Hots was one of the most impressive planes I ever saw back around 1990. The pilot was a guy who had been asked nicely to leave the local "inside loop only" club.
So back then the best RC airshows that I ever saw were at a high school field on the weekends.
Competition FunFlyers with the fat wings and arrow shaft boom fuselages seemed to come next but lacked knife edge ability.
The "Hots Guy" could fly his plane pretty fearlessly because he had several kits he cut out after making a set of templates.
IIRC, he was the first guy I ever saw hover a plane.

Can't wait to see your vaccuformed cowl. I tried vaccuforming with a kitchen oven but never got too far with that idea.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:00 PM
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Hey Chuck!

The Hots is a way fun airplane. Pretty much if you can think it, it can do it. I've always kept one in my stable as my "stupid plane". I had no fear of doing stupid stuff with it because I could put one together in a week or so for another $40. Kinda like your buddy, cut a bunch of kits and no worries.

I vacuum formed the cowl and canopy for my Sykosis. I couldn't believe how well they turned out. Matter of fact, I pulled another cowl for your Sykosis after you gave it to me! Oh, I did tell you about flying it with my brother a few months ago, didn't I? What a hoot! He's flying the snot out of that thing.

Yes, my vacuum forming used the kitchen oven and a vacuum box. It did take some experimentation to get the temperature and heat cycle timing right but it worked out great. This part will be more challenging as it's larger and deeper. I hope to do it as one piece but will build the plug such that I can split it and form two pieces if necessary. Will post results.

Dave
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:10 PM
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Dave, I think this one will become one of those "Do It All" type planes so you just need a fire lit under your short hairs to get it done.
Funny how a lot of guys who build the same plane over and over learn through experience where to make it lighter and lighter.
Commercial kits are mostly all over built due to the company's paranoia and ignorance.
The first really light .45 size plane kit I ever built was Morris Hobbies' SuDoKoi and that design became "too heavy" after OMP and other 3D companies got rolling.
You'll have to post some video of this one once you get nice and relaxed with it...[once you get a few beers in you] and have got a badazz routine worked out with it.
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