ewspears

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Flyboy Dave has said he would bet on a YZ FZ110 powered Modeltech 40 size P51 against the same plane with a Jett FIRE 90.
MGlavin also seems to think the YS would have the edge.

Flyboy Dave, Why don't you round up all the people that believe the same as you to put up some money, I'll do the same.
We agree on a neutral tester with speed measuring capabilities, maybe in Texas. We both submit stock P51's (except for the engine installation) Fastest in level flight takes all the marbles.
Since I'll have to purchase the plane anyway I'll open it up to any reasonably sleek 40 size plane. Probably save time and money if we just used 40 size Ugly Sticks.

THIS COULD BE FUN!

The background for this wager comes from; "What engine will make my p-51 scream??" thread.

ChuckAuger

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Always throwing dead flies into the works!!

Chuck..who is just gonna set on the fence until all the dust settles.

ewspears

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Chuck,

Why not volunteer to be the neutral tester instead of sitting on the fence!

ChuckAuger

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You'd be hard damn pressed to get anybody to come here to fly planes.

Razor-RCU

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Dave is a buddy of mine but I think the Jett-90 gets the call from me-

Isn't Texas its' own country or something?

I would need a passport- and whatever they use for money..

ewspears

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Chuck,
I thought we'd just send you the planes, let you test them and tell us which is faster - I trust you!

Razor,
You're right about Texas, I lived there 15 years, but you won't need a visa unless you're from NY

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I'd take even up bets on the Jett.. .90

If the YS wins, count on me buying one. Untill it does, not a chance.

deletemenow

No Lie!!!!!!!!!

ewspears

My Feedback: (12)

MGLAVIN,

This discussion about whether it's a Modeltech 57" W.S. P51 or a World Models 57.5" W.S. P51 is just extraneous smoke! (From original thread)

The offer of Wager still stands with the World Models 57.5" W.S. P51!!!!!!

Believing as you do; Why would you miss the chance at some $ and having fun at the same time??? All those guys you speak of with the fast YS 110 Powered P51's would probably love the chance at some easy money
They can modify the YS110, run any pipe, as much nitro as they want, and any prop. The only qualifyer is both airframes be the same (stock unmodified).

Flyboy Dave has already stated where his "bettin chip" is going, he just hasn't told me the amount yet.

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

EW

This post was brought to my attention. So, please see my post copied from the origianl thread below. Is it your nature to push the envelope or what? Talk about antagonistic. This hobby is supposed to be fun right?

When did a Jett FIRE 95 come to the table. From the gate it was never mentioned. A Jett 76/90 was mentioned several times by all. Seems you're attempting to stack the deck, again!

EW

All of a sudden were NOT talking about pylon racing? Says who? This has been the catalyst from my first posts and has continued through my latest post. Pylon racing will tell all, IMO. This seems to be the standard that all racing is based upon not to mention all the guys that like to fly the pattern balls to the wall.

Straight line speed contest? This is the first I have heard of this. Looking for a perceived advantage, eh? NOT! What's the matter someone enlighten you? Maybe we should do the straight line thing from altitude, straight down and see if we can shed some parts. Maybe then the Jett will unload the iddy biddy prop and have a chance.

Tell you what let's bag "clocking" the models and use my Stalker Pro radar gun. Maybe I should just ship it to Chuck as well. Or I could fly out to this neutral territory and we'll separate the men from the wannabe go fast boys with their toys that seem to know more about these models and YS Engines than those that own and race them. So lets forget shipping the models and just meet half way. I don't feel comfortable shipping my model to a complete stranger that may or may not know how to operate a YS Engine on Nitro. Not to mention piloting skill. What about the possibility of damage due to operator negligence and or error?

I'll bring two WM Mustang powered model's, one will have a YS-110 and the second will have the Sport Jett 90. Should even the playing field.

I have the actual hands on experience with this model and these engines. I know what needs to be modified and not. Were going to have to establish some standards. These standards should be based on the parameters expressed by the thread originator.

You've made it painfully clear that a wager is in order and nothing else will suffice. So how much is going to make it worth your while, EW? Were talking DOLLARS right? It's going to have to be "lucrative" enough to cover my traveling expenses at the very least and then some additional funds for educating you!

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

Mr. Spears....my reference to the Jett motor was about the
Sport Jett .90....and I didn't say anything about straight line
speed....If you wanna whoop the Supercharged Mustangs
at their own game....you gotta go around the poles....

....and they are WM Mustangs....

....if you want to come up with a theoretical....custom made
Jett .90 FIRE engine....to do battle with the YS engines....
be my guest. I don't think the wimpy 10-8 prop is gonna cut
the mustard....no matter how fast you might spin it....and of course that "fire-log" sized 15cc fully tuned pipe....on the Mustang, might get you thrown off the field before you even start....

So if you feel that strongly about your Jett powered contraption
....bring it out to where the BIG BOYS play....neither I, or
Chuck can help you much with your convictions.

Just show up, and tell 'em you wanna race for money....
....I don't think you will have much trouble getting a bet

...I'll have my chip on the YS planes....

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

After again reading both of your posts I have once again realized I am the stupidest engine guy in this forum-

I love the idea of this though...

I would be willing to sponsor EW the first $50 bucks (not much I know ) towards the 2 stroke effort-

You guys obviously have quite a bit of knowledge on the subject but I stand by the Jett-90/ 95 FIRE etc..

The original thread was just about pure speed- I was thinking high speed passes not a pylon course- Level fly-by speed is the only way to eliminate "better piloting" that may occur in a pylon match...

Show us your marbles folks- and EW.... Let it ride my friend-

james

Flyboy Dave

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....(heh heh heh)....It's one thing to concieve a new "Hot Rod"....
....it's another thing to build it....
....it's another thing to race it....
....it's another thing to whoop the "Big Boys"....that have
been doing this stuff for years.... ....

....and it's another thing....to win.... ....

....I'll place two chips on the 4-strokes....
(they're only $5.00 chips)....

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

....Whoops.....

FlooredCOBRA

well here I was scrolling down reading the posts on here. Then out of nowhere its that dang messed up looking picture!.....Man thats nasty looking...hope its not real....haha

I bet that dudes finger could out pull any of those engines.....there!...... beat that!

ewspears

My Feedback: (12)

MGlavin,

Talk about spinning things!!!!

1) Pylon Racing??? - No where in my posts have I mentioned Pylon Racing Contest. I've even gone out of my way to explain the contest I had in mind wouldn't be encumbred by any Pylon Racing Rules.
This very Forum " Extreme Speed Prop Planes" is about DD's, Whip's, Magnum's, Patriot's, F20's, and Homedesigns. Many times props are so small and acceleration so low that normal or hand launch takeoffs are impossible and dollies must be used. When's the last time you heard someone in this forum talk about "What prop would give my Dust better acceleration off the pylon" - NOT!

RCU covers Pylon Racing in other Forums. BESIDES,

I wouldn't be so stupid as to make a wager with a Pylon Racer about about a Pylon Contest where he was wagering with actual knowledge of outcome and I was calculating results. Also as Razor pointed out the pilots skill level has a considerable effect on outcome.

THIS POST HAS BEEN ABOUT STRAIGHT LINE SPEED FROM THE GET_GO

2)I have not tried to change the engine in any of my posts. To the best of my knowledge I've never mentioned Jett 95. I only own one Jett in that size range. It is a Jett FIRE BSE 90. For clarification, I've hopefully attached a photo of the exact engine I'm speaking of.

While I'd love to see a demonstration of a couple of your Pylon Racers and would undoubtedly learn a lot about present day Warbird Pylon Equipment I don't think I would want to pay your expenses for the experience. My whole idea was to place both engines in question on identical 40 size not too draggy airframes and wager on which was faster in a straight line.

This whole thing comes down to some statements you've made that, while may be true within Warbird Pylon Rules & Practices, I believe are not true from the simple standpoint of; Will a "Full House" Jett 90 make more SHP than a "Full House" YS110.
The power will equate to speed unless you have such a draggy airframe that the reqd. prop diameter is operates below the Max Power RPM for the Jett.
You say I have "no actual experience with the YS-110 and or FUEL... : That's correct with respect to the YS110 but I've got experience with YS 140DZ on 30% Heli Fuel and 2strokes up to 70% nitro.

Further; I'm not in love with the Jett! I have Rossi 90's which could also be put on a "not too draggy" 40 size airframe and also be a WHOLE LOT FASTER THAN ANY YS 110 on the same airframe, straight line, level flight.

This simple premise is what I am willing to wager on. I'm sorry if I sounded antagonistic. I was just trying to boil down the disagreement to the simplest terms. To accomodate you, I even agreed to the 40 size Mustang of your choice. Were I trying to spin it my way I would have suggested a Patriot as the testbed since that is what the Jett was going into anyway.

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

....nice motor Easton..... ....

....It doesn't look like the "race" is ever gonna happen.

But it's fun mixin' it up a little on the boards, huh ? No hard
feelings, eh Guy ?

I have a little "goodie motor" I want to stick in a Patriot some
day....how's about "Dueling Patriots" at 10 paces....

Dave.

ewspears

My Feedback: (12)

Flyboy Dave,
The OS 91VRDF is a great engine! and like the Jett, and Rossi 90's, It can be setup to provide a Higher Power Level than any YS 110! and therefore FASTER in the same plane!

If you take out all the outside influences (club, class, and sanctioning body Rules) you're left with a wonderfully simple outcome in which the more power you apply against a common DRAG CURVE THE FASTER YOU GO!

People who have just seen this thread are going to get the wrong idea and think I don't respect YS Engines.
Nothing could be further from the truth; Overall YS is my favorite engine manufacturer. I have 11 YS 2strokes and 5 YS 4strokes.

I guess I just react badly to statements that cannot be supported by the laws of physics

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

EW

I am a little confused.

So when was this straight line speed thing discussed previously? The only reference I can find to a straight line speed contest was mentioned was in your post #44 in the original thread and again at the start of this thread and a few posts before this one. It really is moot point, IMO anyway. I only mention it because you keep falling back on it.

What pylon racing rules are you talking about? Those I mentioned have no influence or requirements that limit your using a Jett 90 to spank the YS! YS-110 against Jett 90, mono-mono. mounted to the WM Mustang Albeit I thought you were talking of the Sport Jett 90, as I made several inferences to the 76 and 90's. I wasn't aware that Jett even offered a BSE 90 FIRE. Looks like a very nice engine. Your quoted numbers of 18K make a lot more sense now.

I never really inferred to the contest being a straight up pylon race until you mentioned it earlier, I was thinking more along the lines of the straight away speeds on the course. I'd be willing to bet it doesn't take any more skill to come off the turn and burn down the straight away than your capable of, so much for the skill involved. Besides all the other fluff, don't you "extreme speed" guys have to turn your models any way (you know much like a pylon race)? I know my DD at 600mph is turning every time I blink otherwise its a speck on the horizon!

Yes, I am well aware of the problems the high revving small diameter props create with regard to static thrust. This a typical problem with this stuff and lends merit to why the YS will spank the Jett in the WM Mustang! These models have a 62mm/3.25" spinner. While the largest percentage of the work is realized near the tip, this is a factor.

You have made several references to the disparaging difference the Jett will make in other airframes, so be it. BUT this is not what I was or any others were discussing, especially the thread originator. The WM Mustang is what this discussion is about. I would agree that in the right airframe the Jett 90 should be faster than a YS-110. I never discounted or suggested anything different, in fact I never commented until now.

I also agree to some extent that the more power you apply against a common drag coefficient that faster you'll go. But there are many variables here and it is simply not this simple.

As you mentioned, my statements are reflective of the application posed, i.e WM Mustang and are correct of this application.

YS Engines and Warbirds using 30% fuel is like having training wheels on a bike. I did mention high Nitro fuel several times. 45% is pretty common at the field and 65-85% is not that uncommon. There is a learning curve with the higher nitro fuels and it can get expensive, but these engines become fire breathing behemoths. If you ever heard the noise a Top Fuel dragster develops then you maybe able to extrapolate and imagine the music the YS can produce on fuel.

I have a few YS Engines too:
4) YS 120SC's, 2) YS-140L's, 1) YS-140FZ, 1) YS-140DZ and one highly modifed punched out and reworked YS-120SC, 3) YS-91FZ's and 3) YS-110's. I also have several YS-45 rear exhaust powered twin models and another six or seven YS-45 side and rear exhaust engines in various aircraft or in the box. Not to mention a few YS-60's laying around as well.

I'm willing to put this thing to bed and go play in the Pylon Racing Forum now (do we have Warbird Pylon Racing Forum?). :tired:

Have fun with your endeavors and may all your models arrive on time at the appropriate location and in one piece.

Mluvara

My Feedback: (10)

Based on what I have seen with a side exhaust barstock Dub Jett 90, I would say that the YS 110 would have a slight advantage on the WM p-51, purely because of propeller diameter related to what the motor will swing and frontal area of the planes. The Jett 90 is a reliable motor, but I don't think it can turn the diameter and pitch necessary to make the plane faster than the YS. Who knows, it might be close.

ewspears

My Feedback: (12)

I've got no problem with your post except I think your comment about "training wheels" was a little offbase. I said 30% is all I have run in my YS 4 strokes. Twenty years ago I flew Formula 1 with a highly modified ST 40 in a Little Toni and used up to 70% Nitro.

Let me assure you the 2 strokes gain just as much from an extra tip of the nitro bottle as the 4 strokes.

Thinking about past Pylon Racing make me think of a similar comparison. What you are saying is like saying you could put a YS53 on a Preditor, tip the nitro and go faster than a Nelson or Jett 40 on the same plane. But remember the Nelson or Jett can also run the nitro.

Due to noise, looks, acceleration and other factors I'm probably not aware of, I'm sure if I were to get into Warbird Pylon, I'd probably go with YS 4 stroke myself.

I still think my statements about straight line speed are correct even to the point I'd be willing to wager my money on them.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

After all of that- looks like MGlavin has backed out...

Guess I am keepin' my $50 bucks-

Have fun and fly safe everyone!
james

mglavin

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Pardon me, but what lead you to believe this? I stand by my assertion all the way to the neutral territory and the bank! Bring it on... :stupid:

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

I REALLY hope that the
:stupid: I see above is not directed at me-

Anyhow, what happens next in this, the finest RC pi$$ing match I have seen-?

FlooredCOBRA

Who knows....

This is for Razor, I have to ask you a question to cure my curiosity. I seen you post but always wanted to know this. In your avatar under your name it shows a picture of something in a trash can.

This may sound stupid but is that a duck crash landed in the can or a unfortunate plane? I can swear for life of me every time I look at it it looks like a poor duck with wings sticking out..