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  1. #26
    combatpigg's Avatar
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Thanks lfinney. That confirms what the guys at the local bearing supply shops have told me. They have looked at stock bearings from various model engines that I have brought in to them and shown me that those bearings aren't rated high enough to be in those engines at the rpm they run at.
    I've had good results with Swiss made bearings with phenolic retainers and also building my own retainerless bearings with replacement balls and the original races.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  2. #27
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Airraptor it was the same guy that I was racing that told me I couldn't run my Jett. I have to run my stock muffler with the baffle removed.

  3. #28

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    if the same guy says you are to fast and he is flying faster than you then you need to have him show you in the rules where you can not run that engine. Have him show you what prop he is runnign and ask him if his engine is stock (get some RPM numbers from him).

    I would tell the guy to get bent if i was you and not in the rules lol.

    can you post a picture of your plane and engine for me. i might see something where i can help you pick up some speed. find out if can run a Jett muffler also. can you get a set of rules for us or is this just club racing?
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  4. #29
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    It's just club racing. I have to use my stock muffler but I removed my baffle. I tried to post some pics but I'm using my iPhone and RCUniverse is requesting a URL and I'm not sure what to do.

  5. #30

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    ORIGINAL: lfinney

    heres some real tech about ABEC, for those who really want to know facts versus old wives tales

    the most crude, the least precise, the most durable and the cheapest.
    ABEC 3 is what most cheap complete skateboards come with, especially skateboards from China. ABEC 3 bearings will work for most skateboarding, but won't roll very smoothly or fast.
    ABEC 5 bearings are the norm in skateboarding. You get a reasonable amount of speed, and at a reasonable cost. However, there are lots of people who argue that the skateboarding industry is lying, and that most ABEC 5 skateboard bearings you see aren't actually built to ABEC 5 standards...
    ABEC 7 bearings would be very fast and smooth, but very expensive. Plus, you start to run the risk of needlessly damaging them if you skate hard or aggressively. Also, if you are buying cheap ABEC 7 bearings made in China, you are probably being lied to (read The Truth about Skateboard Bearings.
    ABEC 9 and higher bearings would be ridiculous to use in a skateboard, unless you are doing downhill luge style skating, or something else where your goal is to go insanely fast. If you aren't spending a fortune on these bearings, then don't trust that they are in fact ABEC 9!

    The ABEC rating of a bearing is determined by asking these four questions:

    How close is the bore to 8mm in microns (a micron is one millionth of a meter)?
    How close is the outer diameter to 22 in microns?
    How close is the width to 7mm in microns?
    What's the rotating accuracy in microns?

    knowledge is power abec rating have nothing to do with noise as posted earlier in this thread
    A ABEC 1 bearing will be louder than a ABEC 3 bearing and so on. Buy a real ABEC 9 bearing and spin it then spin a ABEC 5 bearing. you might be supprised!

    Ifinny lol you crack me up. You spend two seconds looking up bearings on the net. you copy and paste the first thing you find on Yahoo. Your copy and paste has no credibility at all. its a skate board shop that sells bearings. i used to play roller hockey. I know all about bearings used in these and skate boards. I also work on 270 million dollar jets for a living. i think i know bearings. i will Quote you again here "How close is the bore to 8mm in microns (a micron is one millionth of a meter)?
    How close is the outer diameter to 22 in microns?
    How close is the width to 7mm in microns?
    What's the rotating accuracy in microns?"

    Your quote here only pertain to one size bearing. A bearing of 22mm outside dia. inner race is 8mm and the total bearing is 7mm wide lol Is that a skate board bearing your to funny dude.

    Here is a Quote/copy paste for the readers here.

    ABEC scale


    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Jump to: navigation, search


    The ABEC scale is an industry accepted standard for the tolerances of a ball bearing. It was developed by the Annular Bearing Engineering Committee (ABEC) of the American Bearing Manufacturers Association (ABMA). There are five classes from largest to smallest tolerances: 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9. The higher ABEC classes provide better precision, efficiency,[citation needed] and greater speed capabilities, but do not necessarily make the components spin faster.[1] The ABEC rating does not specify many other critical factors, such as smoothness of the rolling contact surfaces, ball precision or quality/type of steel used.

    The bearing material is not specified in the ABEC grades. Bearings not conforming to at least ABEC 1 can not be classified as precision bearings as their tolerances are too loose.

    The scale is designed to allow a user to make an informed decision about the type of bearing they are purchasing. High rated bearings are intended for precision applications like aircraft instruments or surgical equipment. Lower grades are intended for the vast majority of applications such as vehicles, mechanical hobbies, skates, skateboards, fishing reels and industrial machinery. High ABEC rated bearings allow optimal performance of critical applications requiring very high RPM and smooth operation.

    ISO's equivalent standard is ISO 492.



    ABEC 1
    class 6

    ABEC 3
    class 6

    ABEC 5
    class 5

    ABEC 7
    class 4

    ABEC 9
    class 2

    There are a number of factors covered by the ABEC grades. One is the eccentricity (roundness) of the track in the inner ring. The figures given below is the maximum eccentricity allowable.

    ABEC 1: 0.0075mm (0.000295")

    ABEC 3: 0.0050mm (0.000197")

    ABEC 5: 0.0035mm (0.000138")

    ABEC 7: 0.0025mm (0.000098")

    ABEC 9: 0.0012mm (0.000047")
    now if you readers what to know tons more on bearing goto the ABMA website. register and learn a bunch. now anytime you guys do a search on the net for information you need to make sure the info presented is accurate, current and most of all relevant. make sure the author has expertise on the topic he is writing about. A skate board shop talking about bearings he sells doesnt match any of these things. just like I dont but i i know crap when I see it. i have seen where some places will sell you a ABEC 7 or 9 bearing and give you 50% off. you are like whoa i have to have that i will go so fast lol. He knows that you cant tell. the ABEC 3 bearigs are the best for skate boards by the way. there is so much dirt and dust on the roads they with the higher clearneces they have they will last longer. sure a ABEC 5 or 7 might go a tad faster but it will wear out faster hence why those shops will sell them to you. Anyway Iffinny no negative just that copy and post wasnt good. i have seen some much better from you on here.

    Flyer send a pic of plane to my email ok its AIRRAPTOR@COMCAST.NET i will help you as best i can. i bet that guy has modded his engine some if have to run stock muffler. talk to him and see if he will give his ground rpm.. then go up and check his prop someday.
    AMA # 126183
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  6. #31
    combatpigg's Avatar
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    ORIGINAL: airraptor



    Ifinney the ABEC rating is determined from how much ''noise'' a bearing makes.
    I did a little bit of snooping and couldn't find a single source that confirms that the rating is based on how much noise the bearing makes.
    Common sense will show a loose correlation between looseness and noise...but noise isn't what the ABEC is all about lol.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  7. #32

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    my point exactly CP noise as a rating in bearings please....the reason racing engine use higher abec rating is to free up rotating drag, a cursory exam of rossi crankcase will also show efforts to make sure shaft drag is reduced by free flow of oil, more clearance in the bearing allows oil to move with less friction and the engine puts more power into prop.

  8. #33

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Flyer sorry some of this thread is just bickering. I have a couple of guys in this forum that like to counter anything i say lol. some have way to many posts. Anyway i do know how to make planes fly faster than normal. i can tell you how to get more rpm out of that APC prop also. Just shoot me a email.
    ..

    and yes i did make a mistake by saying the ABEC rating comes from noise but it does go together.


    IFfiny if you would like to learn more about bearings shoot me an email and we can discuss!!
    AMA # 126183
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  9. #34
    combatpigg's Avatar
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    Flyer sorry some of this thread is just bickering. I have a couple of guys in this forum that like to counter anything i say lol. some have way to many posts.
    You brought this on yourself by being the first one to barge in to try to discredit lfinney's informative post about not all bearings being equal in quality or tolerance.

    As far as too many posts, you do seem to have a problem with that...don't you..?
    How many build threads have you ever contributed here at RCU..?
    I'll bet I've done over 30.
    There's also many guys that I've formed friendships with here over the years and we use RCU for our meeting place to hang out and talk planes without a bunch of childish chest beating, bragging, wildly exagerated claims, etc.
    enough said...lol
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  10. #35

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    I wasnt discredting his post about beaings not being equal but his post about a ABEC being looser fit. Then he posted a skate board shps views on bearings..


    PIG you and I will always be going round and round. You know some things and many others you dont.

    ALSO should I rate myself better than anyone else because of how many build threads i have done lol All I see is you have 16,000 posts and and I have 2,000 I guess I build and fly more and you post more. Its all good. I see a lot of guys posting what they think they know yet have no real experience with the subject at all.
    AMA # 126183
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  11. #36
    combatpigg's Avatar
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Enjoy yourself. Maybe you could talk to RCU about getting your own sub forum...?
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  12. #37

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Higher ABEC ratings (numerically) do not mean that the bearing will spin faster nor with less drag. They are a tighter fit bearing with less clearance between the races and balls. Less clearance = more drag. Less clearance also means better precision and is why the highly rated bearings are used in precision instruments. It amazes me what some people will post!
    BTW, I'm a mechanical engineer that specifies the correct bearings to be used in the machines that I design.

  13. #38

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power


    ORIGINAL: BiggerDanno

    Higher ABEC ratings (numerically) do not mean that the bearing will spin faster nor with less drag. They are a tighter fit bearing with less clearance between the races and balls. Less clearance = more drag. Less clearance also means better precision and is why the highly rated bearings are used in precision instruments. It amazes me what some people will post!
    BTW, I'm a mechanical engineer that specifies the correct bearings to be used in the machines that I design.

    +1
    +1
    AMA # 126183
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  14. #39

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    here is wikipedias data for those of us that can read and understand plain english...


    ABEC scale
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    The ABEC scale is an industry accepted standard for the tolerances of a ball bearing. It was developed by the Annular Bearing Engineering Committee (ABEC) of the American Bearing Manufacturers Association (ABMA). There are five classes from largest to smallest tolerances: 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9. The higher ABEC classes provide better precision, efficiency,[citation needed] and greater speed capabilities, but do not necessarily make the components spin faster.[1] The ABEC rating does not specify many other critical factors, such as smoothness of the rolling contact surfaces, ball precision or quality/type of steel used.

    The bearing material is not specified in the ABEC grades. Bearings not conforming to at least ABEC 1 can not be classified as precision bearings as their tolerances are too loose.

    The scale is designed to allow a user to make an informed decision about the type of bearing they are purchasing. High rated bearings are intended for precision applications like aircraft instruments or surgical equipment. Lower grades are intended for the vast majority of applications such as vehicles, mechanical hobbies, skates, skateboards, fishing reels and industrial machinery. High ABEC rated bearings allow optimal performance of critical applications requiring very high RPM and smooth operation.

    ISO's equivalent standard is ISO 492.[2][3]
    ABEC ISO 492
    ABEC 1 normal
    class 6X
    ABEC 3 class 6
    ABEC 5 class 5
    ABEC 7 class 4
    ABEC 9 class 2
    Actual Changes In Run-out Between Different ABEC Grades

    There are a number of factors covered by the ABEC grades. One is the eccentricity (roundness) of the track in the inner ring. The figures given below is the maximum eccentricity allowable.

    ABEC 1: 0.0075mm (0.000295")

    ABEC 3: 0.0050mm (0.000197")

    ABEC 5: 0.0035mm (0.000138")

    ABEC 7: 0.0025mm (0.000098")

    ABEC 9: 0.0012mm (0.000047")

    so there is a better data set, yes concentrenticity does matter and no a higher bearing abec rating doesnt mean less clearance the higher does mean some greater clearance

  15. #40

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    isnt that what i posted dude lol you make me laugh so friggin hard. Duh
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  16. #41

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power


    ORIGINAL: lfinney

    here is wikipedias data for those of us that can read and understand plain english...


    ABEC scale
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    The ABEC scale is an industry accepted standard for the tolerances of a ball bearing. It was developed by the Annular Bearing Engineering Committee (ABEC) of the American Bearing Manufacturers Association (ABMA). There are five classes from largest to smallest tolerances: 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9. The higher ABEC classes provide better precision, efficiency,[citation needed] and greater speed capabilities, but do not necessarily make the components spin faster.[1] The ABEC rating does not specify many other critical factors, such as smoothness of the rolling contact surfaces, ball precision or quality/type of steel used.

    The bearing material is not specified in the ABEC grades. Bearings not conforming to at least ABEC 1 can not be classified as precision bearings as their tolerances are too loose.

    The scale is designed to allow a user to make an informed decision about the type of bearing they are purchasing. High rated bearings are intended for precision applications like aircraft instruments or surgical equipment. Lower grades are intended for the vast majority of applications such as vehicles, mechanical hobbies, skates, skateboards, fishing reels and industrial machinery. High ABEC rated bearings allow optimal performance of critical applications requiring very high RPM and smooth operation.

    ISO's equivalent standard is ISO 492.[2][3]
    ABEC ISO 492
    ABEC 1 normal
    class 6X
    ABEC 3 class 6
    ABEC 5 class 5
    ABEC 7 class 4
    ABEC 9 class 2
    Actual Changes In Run-out Between Different ABEC Grades

    There are a number of factors covered by the ABEC grades. One is the eccentricity (roundness) of the track in the inner ring. The figures given below is the maximum eccentricity allowable.

    ABEC 1: 0.0075mm (0.000295'')

    ABEC 3: 0.0050mm (0.000197'')

    ABEC 5: 0.0035mm (0.000138'')

    ABEC 7: 0.0025mm (0.000098'')

    ABEC 9: 0.0012mm (0.000047'')

    so there is a better data set, yes concentrenticity does matter and no a higher bearing abec rating doesnt mean less clearance the higher does mean some greater clearance
    Ifinny give up dude insert foot in mouth lol
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  17. #42
    Max_Power's Avatar
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Ooooooh Airraptor...You really work on 270 million dollar jets??? WOW!!!! Do they let you check the tire pressure and everything?? Was the ABEC rating class one of the first things they taught you? I happened to be able to hold the tach while one of your "super-engines" was running, does that qualify me as a superhero too? Pretty unimpressive performance, and honestly if my name and rep were on the line I would have sent out something that was a bit cleaner and showed a bit more pride. My 25 years of running these models has just been on a amatuer level, The only thing you have proven to me is that either you or your "engine guy" owns a dremel. and that you can copy, paste, and regurgitate what you googled for.

    On the other hand a few others on this site have and DO on a regular basis show that they can "walk the walk" I look back just a year or so ago and it seems like everything was "I dunno, my engine guy did it" and all the sudden as of late you seem to have mastered everything all of the sudden??

    The only thing I seem to agree with you on in this thread is that the OP needs to line out what the rules are and arent at his races before trying to make the engine perform exactly what will be fast enough without being too fast to be "legal".
    \"A guy told me the other day I must be very smart,......I told him \"No!, I\'\'m REALLY dumb, But learning from my mistakes!!\"\"

  18. #43

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Yes max power I am a super hero.

    by the way my name and rep isnt on the line. I sent your buddy a engine on good faith. I didnt send it to him to run then post the numbers. I can run video all day long if you want on these engines. i didnt know your buddy so why would I send my best engine to a stranger. I wasnt sure I would even get it back. I ran the engine before i sent to him and I ran it when I got it back and the engine ran the numbers I said it would. I tried to help your buddy serveral times when he asks for help but I see now you and him are beyond help because you will not listen.

    Doesnt matter to me. I know how to make things faster, how to get more out of an engine, how to get more out of a prop and how to get more ouut of an airframe. I am in the AF been in for 21 years now. I am a certified master mechanic, I have my A&P, working on my MAS degree from Embry-Riddle, been in ever major conflict in the middle east, been to every continent even Antarctica, Worked on the C-141B for 10 years and was a flying crew chief, worked the C-17 for 10 years and I was also a flying crew chief with it, I let sharks swim with me in florida, I can fly any RC aircraft, I have driven a car over 200 and I dont always drink beer but when I do I drink Dos Equis.


    Anything else from MN?
    AMA # 126183
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  19. #44

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Airraptor
    I did not know you are Air Force.

    You probably do not hear this enough, but Thank You for serving.

    Scott
    Revver Brother #260

  20. #45

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    The OS AX .46 is faster the OS FX .46, well documented in our area as we have been racing those motors for somewhere around 15 years.

    Ignore your RPM / PITCH calculations, I won a ton of races using a standard APC 10x7 Sport Prop.

    A couple of the APC pylon props do work, I believe many of them are using the 9 1/2" x 8.5 N (Single N, not double NN).

    Good luck.
    Dave Norman
    29w

  21. #46

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    Pylon thanks but didnt state that to get praise. We need to support the spouse's and family's of those that have paid with their lives.

    daven yes i have done a lot of testing with telemetry on with the OS46 AX on planes around 95 MPH and the 10x7 APC was the best performing on all the prop. Something else to support not using those pitch calcs was that the 12x4APC if i remember correctly was around 15,000 in the air and took the plane to around 88-90 mph. The pylon props will work ok from what i have seen also but you have way more experience on the Q-500 style planes.

    I dont like getting in these arguing matches on here and sometimes mine are bigger than yours keeps us men arguing lol.

    Anyway forums are usually the worst source of info followed next by the internet sources where they are not experts in the subject that they are talking about. I fall into the area also. I know a lot but sometime have a hard to explaining them so everyone understands them.
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  22. #47
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power


    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    Yes max power I am a super hero.

    by the way my name and rep isnt on the line. I sent your buddy a engine on good faith. I didnt send it to him to run then post the numbers. I can run video all day long if you want on these engines. i didnt know your buddy so why would I send my best engine to a stranger. I wasnt sure I would even get it back. I ran the engine before i sent to him and I ran it when I got it back and the engine ran the numbers I said it would. I tried to help your buddy serveral times when he asks for help but I see now you and him are beyond help because you will not listen.

    Anything else from MN?
    We need to get a few things clear here. First off, you never said anything about posting the numbers I got with your engine. Based on how proud you were of your engine guy, I wanted to see if it was really up to snuff. Turns out it wasn't, and probably due to the elevation change from your part of the country (assuming near sea level) to my part of the country (about 900-1000ft ASL). Perhaps if I had a little "thicker" air, it might have revved up a bit more. I have seen your videos, and I have seen what your tach has to say. No doubt your engines turn those rpm in California, but they don't here in Minnesota. Go figure that local climate has so much to do with how an engine performs.

    Your engine ran according to one of your posts, as down on power when you got it back vs. when you sent it out.

    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    LOL it was fresh transfluid. i got the engine today and just ran it. i got 17,500 dead even on the the same 9x8 prop on red muffler so it is donw on power from before i sent to you. I will tear it down tomorrow to find out where the problem is.
    In a PM you claimed 17,800 on a 9x7 apc pro and 5% fuel. My highest reading was 800rpm less than that. What is a person supposed to think when you expect one result and get another? Something would have to be amiss. Perhaps at my elevation I needed 10% nitro to get the same results you got on 5%.

    One last thing. I never asked for help from you. You replied to at least 2 of my threads in the Tach forum offering your "engine guy's" services on at least 2 of my engines, 3 including the .46. You offered, I didnt ask. If I were to consider having your guy do work for me, I would need to see the proof in the pudding, and I didnt see that where I would be running the engine. Did I go about it after the fact very well? Probably not - I apologize for that. But don't tell me and everyone else that I asked for help from you and then wouldn't take it.



    GlowHead Brotherhood #3
    Using Dynamite, Enya, Fox, Jett, K&B, SH, Super Tigre, Thunder Tiger, and Traxxas engines.


  23. #48

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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    AMA # 126183
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  24. #49
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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power

    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    Better take a bow. You're a better man than I.

    To the OP: if you want more power than your 46AX can give, get a better engine. There are better engines out there than an OS.
    GlowHead Brotherhood #3
    Using Dynamite, Enya, Fox, Jett, K&B, SH, Super Tigre, Thunder Tiger, and Traxxas engines.


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    RE: OS AX 46 needs more power


    ORIGINAL: daven

    The OS AX .46 is faster the OS FX .46, well documented in our area as we have been racing those motors for somewhere around 15 years.

    Ignore your RPM / PITCH calculations, I won a ton of races using a standard APC 10x7 Sport Prop.

    A couple of the APC pylon props do work, I believe many of them are using the 9 1/2'' x 8.5 N (Single N, not double NN).

    Good luck.
    I don't think the AX has been around 10 years, much less 15.
    My experience with both has the FX faster on top end, the AX torquier at lower rpms.


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