Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

200mph electric delta brainstorming

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Old 04-17-2013, 07:00 PM
  #1  
Forced_Induction
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Default 200mph electric delta brainstorming

Hey all,

A couple years ago i built myself an electric shrike 10. I used a 3548 electric motor and overdrew it to 1000+w. I was able to doppler it at 210km/h. needless to say, i was hooked. the shrike was fun, but a buddy of mine did some minimal mods to a funjet and now has a faster plane. this cant stand for long lol. i am tossing around the idea of building a delta to beat his funjet. i was looking at the screamin demon but am open to suggestions. My plan for a power system is to use a 12s lipo setup using a 600 size heli motor. it will be exposed to allow for better cooling. the higher KV of the heli motors will help get the rpm, and using a 11-12 pitch prop should get the job done.

Id like some other peoples suggestions. i havent come across anything similar in my searches so far, and it makes me worried that there is a reason for that. what do you guys think?
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:26 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

I know of a Screamin' Demon that does 200 mph.
It needs about 3500 watts to get it done with a .40 size methanol burner.
I'm curious to see what it takes with electric power to match not just the speed but also the wattage it takes to do it with a Screamin' Demon.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:18 AM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

CP to add to that the 40 size one will weigh less. A 12 nbattery to power that motor will be around 35-50 ounces alone. you dont need a delta to beat him. just get any F-5D plane with electric motor and be able to handle the weight better and do over 200MPH or 300 KMH
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

Im running the 700 EFlight Heli 500kv motor with a cheap 120HV Hobbywing ESC on 3300 Glacer 30c 12 (6sX2) lipos in my jackel doing well over 155+ with a APC 11X12e prop.

Cheap fun and a blast!

There is a guy with his jackel on 10s with a $400 scorpen 520kv heli motor with a 12X12 g sonic prop doing 180.

Im getting 3;30 flight with take off and landing with 4 wot passes and still have 40% left in my lipos.

Oh this motor is turning this prop on the ground at 14,500rpm

A cheaper 880kv T600 HK heli motor on 6s turning same prop at 12k-12,500

Let me know what motor you use...

The hard part actuly is finding a prop that can handle the RPMS If I use a nitro prop my amps go way up, so its give an take.

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Old 04-24-2013, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming


ORIGINAL: mikes68charger

Im running the 700 EFlight Heli 500kv motor with a cheap 120HV Hobbywing ESC on 3300 Glacer 30c 12 (6sX2) lipos in my jackel doing well over 155+ with a APC 11X12e prop.

Cheap fun and a blast!

There is a guy with his jackel on 10s with a $400 scorpen 520kv heli motor with a 12X12 g sonic prop doing 180.

Im getting 3;30 flight with take off and landing with 4 wot passes and still have 40% left in my lipos.

Oh this motor is turning this prop on the ground at 14,500rpm

A cheaper 880kv T600 HK heli motor on 6s turning same prop at 12k-12,500

Let me know what motor you use...

The hard part actuly is finding a prop that can handle the RPMS If I use a nitro prop my amps go way up, so its give an take.


Just because its a electric motor doesnt mean you have to run a electric prop...
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

very true, but unless your useing the $400+ motors even the 700heli motors have a hard time with the tq required to spin these supper high rpms.

On the T600 at 12,500 its pulling around 120amps at wot with a nitro prop its about 25-30amps higher with less rpm, and the fact im already useing 12pich well that means slower.

On the Eflite 700 Heli motor at the 14,500rpm is pulling around 160amps for a few sec at wot, need to get a amp gauge that slides over the wire. But I tried a 11X12 nitro apc prop and only got 13,000 rpms and the motor did not like it. so Im sure the amps were way high!

The only carbon fiber props that I can find don't have that high of a pich and require more rpm.

The issue with that is most of the larger out runners are even lower kv, most of your 600 heli motors are in the 800kv range wich dose not have the torq

and your 700 heli motors are in the 500kv or lower, so then you need way more cells to get the rpm back up.

SO like in my exsample above one motor is on 6s, and the othere on 12s with only 2k rpm increse,

I know it can be done, Im trying to find the right combo my self and would love to learn from otheres.

But as these deltas he is talking about are smaller thrust will not be such a issue, as my Hanger 9 jackel on the 12 set up weights 8.5 pounds and is makeing a little over 9 pounds of thrust to pull that airframe to its max prop speed.

The so if I had a smaller bird I would go with a smaller 9in prop wich will give a lot more rpm, but less thrust.
I so If you find a better motor combo please shair, I would love to know.

I cant find my numbers but I know I spent/wasted money on the largest 90mm EDF Het motor and was suck with 7-8in props to get the pich speed I want, wich was low on thrust due to small dia

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Old 05-14-2013, 07:05 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

The biggest problem is your airframe: it is just too fat and draggy. You can throw all the money and watts at it you want, it is not going to go much faster. Drag is a real pain in the ass, as it increases with the square of the speed. So in the end you just run into a brick wall, since you can only stuff so much power into that airframe.

So instead of focusing on high dollar motors and 150 amp setups, focus on drag reduction first, and work from there.
Now you're right that finding a commercially available prop to get a plane like the H9 Jackal really fast might prove difficult. You may be able to squeeze a few more mph out of it with a prop built specifically for you setup, but it basically a waste of time and money IMO, because your plane is crap to begin with

Now, a scatch built delta OTOH... I'm fairly sure you don't need 3500W to get such a thing to go 200+
Again, the problem is rather the prop, than the airframe. Available pylon props are designed around very specific airplane-engine setups. The common approach with electric setups it to have props spinning insane rpm's (because you are not limited to a torque curve like with an IC engine), and thus wasting a lot of power. That eardrum ripping whine is all energy being wasted. You simply need less rpm, and more pitch...pitch that isn't commercially available.

So...start building props...
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

mike the large electric props are flexing at that rpm and losing pitch... Thats why the lower load. watch them with a HS camera..
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

swing this! Gonna need a fair amount of wattage...........and a gearbox.


http://www.soaringusa.com/GM-10x23-30-5mm-Set.html
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:21 AM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

That would do it, on a nice slick airframe.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:06 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

for $1500 and the right F5D plane, that'll get you 230-260 with the right combo
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

A 200 mph F5D should stay under $1000 unless you go for one of the high end airframes. And about 1KW will do it. The current crop of F5D can not hold enough battery to hit 230-260. If you tried, you would be replacing a puffed pack almost every flight. There are some speed cup type planes that are available, one called Ninja Speed that can hold the power, but you must build it from plans. External mounted big outrunner running a prop like the one I linked above. 6-8 KW and about 240-250 if you don't blow it up. The high aspect F5D turn at very high speeds and maintain speed. Turn deltas at at high speed (necessary to keep them in sight) and you scrub speed in the turns that you are always hitting that wall. Deltas under 200 go very fast, cheaply. Start getting close to 200 and you use so much energy in the turns that only shear HP will get you a tiny bit more. High aspect ratio maintains much more in the turns. I know....I currently fly an Enigma F5B, 4KW hotline, 175 flat and level, no dives, 200+ Power on dives. [X(] I also fly a 600 watt Sunracer III 1M F5D (old rules) It is a solid 160. I have flown 200 mph Deltas and flew A LOT of 150+ deltas. They are the fastest and slowest planes at most any field. Cheap, simple, and good honest flying airplanes. You can do some crazy thing with them like....150 mph knee cap pass, even with your self, kill engine as pulling full back. Delta does a decelerating, 50-75 foot fibonacci loop followed by a walking speed, high alpha belly flop at your feet. Nuff said.......

Brooks
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:21 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

Your right the jackel has its flaws. Like the fake air intakes and no doors for the retracts

but I was wrong on the speed I'm at 173mph.

It was great last weekend my boy broght his falcon 120 with a 18 pound Turbin

i was 3 min in and we lined up and he was already a little ahead and when wot first, buy 1/2 feild I pulled right I front of him, by the end of the feild I had 4 plane lengths on him

it was great. Low budget electr prop jet vs $3500 rc jet lol

Any pics of the delta design your thinking of?

I just maden a Delta 106 Dart 120mm edf. It flew great not supper fast but fun

I got a 63in ME 163 with some rockets in the back and electric up front could be a fun platform
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

ME 163 Komet

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEDf1iSjG4g[/youtube]

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...90mm_EDF_.html

+150 Amp esc.


Measured with radar to 280 kmh with this set up.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK2DRCKiJYo[/youtube]

Burning ESC (With the old motor and Esc)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoB2mlJl-VU[/youtube]

My ME 163 playlist:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list..._GjV6YhghO9uWk

Cheers
S


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Old 05-22-2013, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

Speedster.....your plane takes off like it was shot out of a cannon..!
It's a very beautiful model, glad to see that you saved it from melting.
Does the fuselage need more air passing through it..?
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:58 AM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

Hi Combat

Maybe with the old motor and internal ESC,
With the new set up the ESC have cooling outside just behind the canopy, as you can see at this video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0DguGUixA[/youtube]

In the videoIm using 4 cell 4000 Mhaand 8x8 prop, and this is now my normal set up, (sometimes 2x 4 cell 4000 mha in paralel) and still give a real good speed, about 270 km/h.

Cheers
S
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

Speedster, thankyou for showing that camera angle..! I have never seen video of a speed model done like that before, it is very impressive.
Love your ME163... the original designers would be very much honored to see models like your's doing "scale" speeds at mach 3.
I think one of the German engineers in that programme lived here in Washington in his old age, but his name escapes me.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:03 AM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

Dr. Lippisch lived in Iowa, don't know where else. Is that who you are thinking of? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Lippisch

Larry Conover (Lucky Lindy FF designer) was a model maker for Dr. Lippisch in the 1950's, I got to know him a bit when I lived in Colorado Springs. Loved tinkering with any kind of model esp. if it was something different and interesting.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

MJD...I'm not sure but I'll snoop around for the facts instead of going by memory. I think the guy I'm thinking about is named Rudy. A quick check so far has a Rudy Opitz listed as a ME163 test pilot.
At a local airfield [Paine Field] they restored a ME 262 and I think it was Rudy who got invited down there as a VIP to look it over [and to add some human interest to the newspaper article]
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: 200mph electric delta brainstorming

Those were the only names I could think of, there must be a long list of displaced German scientists and/or their descendants scattered throughout the US.
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