combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I had to reinstall Windows XP. The camera came with a software CD that I can not find. Hopefully Sony will be able to furnish a sustitute CD.
I mixed up a batch of 10% nitro, 10% castor, 10% Klotz and it seemed to help get the engine started easier. The oil residue is a dark brown [indicating over compression], but the needle range was very broad. I think the crank case pressure tap with a fine thread needle that was made for higher [latex combat bladder] pressure gives real precise metering.
The nitro I'm using dates back to 2003, the methanol was bought in 2009.

iron eagel

Well the good new is Sony posts the XP driver for their older cameras still on their website.
Is a bit of over compression that bad for what you are doing?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

That's good to know about the support from Sony. I'll at least get the camera going today and get some tach readings.
I got some 5 x 5 APC and 5.25 x 6.25.
The hope is that these props perform better than the chop job I did on a 6.5 x 5.5. I didn't try to recontour the tips, but I do not recall very many successful attempts to modify APC props.
The result is the plane didn't seem very fast even though the engine was happy with the lower load.
The exhaust oil color looking burnt is an indicator, [like a diagnostic tuning tool] but one engine / fuel combination can display it to various degrees and another engine / fuel combo can display similar color and the message about what is happening inside the engine can be different.
For example, if I saw such dark color with this same fuel mix from my Webra .50.....I would look at the plug and combustion chamber for signs of over heating.
This ZALP has an extremely flat combustion chamber, so the engine probably is able to burn a higher % of the oil content than a lower compression engine that is meant for higher nitro.
I'll bet this thing would start and run with model deisel fuel right now.
The Spektrum DX6 has all sorts of BAD message traffic on the discussion boards about how poorly it supports the elevon function. I just never noticed this before [I guess] because the .061 powered BATOUTTAHELL didn't need much trimming......
There are "work around" fixes suggested that I've read...but I hate knob dicking around with this stuff.
I do remember a single stick radio years ago that didn't give enough elevon up travel but too much roll travel, so I swapped channels with the servos and held the radio sideways to fly.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Dark brown = what, too hot, breaking down the oil?

iron eagel

CP that's why I went with the Futaba 6EX over the Spektrum. There are many features of the Spektrum that are better but the issues with the elevon function was enough to scare me off.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Yes, yes, yes.
It's no different than tuning a diesel, you let some exhaust spray gather on your fingers and give it a look.
Diesel oil spray can get almost pure black which means that compression is high enough to use much of the oil as fuel, instead of using it just as a lubricant..
This is the point Dave Shadel drove home with me while I was learning how to run the piped Nelson engines above 25,000.
If you are running model sport engines in the sizes we typically do here below 20,000, this is mostly just meaningless trivia.

IE...the biggest "selling point" was the tiny RX of the Spektrum's. I'm going to gradually adjust the linkage mechanically until the plane is dialed in..

I ran the engine today with a 5.25 x 6.25 and it easily tached 25,500 with out going into the leanest possible scream. I tried to get it to start with a 5x5 and it just wont no matter what I try. The engine is too much for the 1/2 A starter and trying to hand flip it the prop doesn't pack enough momentum to get the engine to kick past TDC hard enough.
The E props have thin hubs that I'll probably need to machine a special spinner nut for. This way I'll be able to use the regular size Sullivan starter.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

For reference 25,500 on that prop is a bit over 400W/0.55hp as far as I can figure.

iron eagel

The Futaba rxs are a bit chunky compared to the Spektrum ones.
I suspect that it was actually producing a lot better than half a horse because sitting on the ground that prop was stalled, which actually is supposed to take more grunt to spin it, than when it is not stalled. In the air I suspect it will peak out a lot faster than 25K more on the order of 28-31k rpm.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Well..whatever it's producing isn't going to be very uhhh....inspirational unless I can figure out how to reliably start the engine with the ultra-light props.
This isn't going to be the "cake walk" I hought it would be.
Anything under 150 mph is a failure to improve on the Cyclon .061 powered projects. It's still fun to be in "hot pursuit" of a goal, don't get me wrong. Sometimes the results "pan out" and sometimes you just spin your wheels.
At any rate, this plane launches like a bull rider leaving the chute with a pissed off bull and it's fun to play with. It'll be more fun if I can get it to fly with just a wee bit of down trim. This is how I learned to fly, by holding a wee bit of "back stick" to keep the model flying level. Then it is a smooth deal to relax the pressure on the stick to drop into a low pass, then level out with just a bit of thumb pressure.

iron eagel

On engines this size I use a standard Sullivan starter, with the small cone backwards, the hole just fits over the spinner nut and the rubber grabbed the prop enough to spin it up. Sometimes a few drops of lighter fluid if it's cool out, they really balk at starting in cool weather unless you running 15% or up nitro. I had an old K&B 0.19 cl engine that used to be like that, it was a nice running engine, but a real pain to start.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

With crank case pressure, this thing goes into "auto-flood mode" if it does fire up ASAP. The exhaust points UP with this model, so clearing a slight flood means turning the model upside down or else pulling the plug.
Fuel is able to enter the crankcase via the pressure tap, so I might put a chack valve in line.
Try starting any .15 you own with a 5x5 APC E prop on crankcase pressure and I'll bet the engines that have a generous sized combustion chamber allow easier starting than the engines with almost no chamber.
This engine is very close to a hydraulic lock unless everything is just perfect. During the starting of any cold engine, you need a rich condition..but that puts this engine too close to hydraulic lock.
I think machining a different head button [with an open chamber] is worth trying, but it will take more skill than typical because the head fits to the head clamp with a XX degree tapered fit.

iron eagel

K&B was the same way as far as flooding during starting. I like the check valve idea.

Edit to add:
I was thinking any chance the up trim thing is due to thrust vectoring effect because of the exhaust outlet?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I think the prop blast and air currents at 100 mph wash out the exhaust blast.
I'm going to look at the combustion chamber shape of a ASP.12 engine that starts pretty easily with a pressurized fuel system and the APC 5 x 5 prop.
That engine might be a drop in fit on this plane.

aspeed

You could start it like a speed model. Stationary starter, and ram the motor into the cone, while slowly opening the needle.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

That's the safest way by far. A frame that clamps to the radiator support of my Jeep could be easy to build.
The E props really flex like crazy while the engine is getting cranked.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I got a couple of flights video'd...but the GD camera refuses to "finalize" the footage.
I even did a trial video transfer before I left for the field today.
The first flight was with a 5.5 x 5.5 APC [chopped from 6.5"] and it fired right up and put in a decent looking flight.
The elevon linkage adjustment helped with how the model feels to me..but I went just a hair too far. 1/2 turn on the clevises will solve that.
The 2nd flight was with the 5.25 x 6.25 APC and it took me 7 minutes to get the engine started. It looked good in the air and really unloaded good. I can not tell what is happening as far as speed goes..I did not see a difference. I'm disappointed that this engine isn't revving the 5.25 x 6.25 much higher [possibly 28,000 in the sky]..but it's hard to be too sad when you are out there in your Tee shirt on a nice day with a screaming model toy like a kid again.
Making a "nitro" head for this thing will require getting a 11/32" pipe thread tap. I'll also need to bore a perfectly tapered seat for the Nelson plug. After that hurdle is cleared, then the machining of the head button will be anti-climatic.
Today's flights were also being shared with a few man carrying planes just 100 feet above where I was flying. They were basically 300 feet lower than they are supposed to be flying. For this reason, I'm stuck doing level laps instead of the usual Cuban Pattern routine, where I zoom up at the end of a level pass, then do 1/2 loop back down for another pass.

aspeed

I have been making heads with Turbo plugs. They are the same as the Nelson's but there are more brands and heat ranges to choose (confuse) from. It is a 60 degree taper (centre drill) and an M8 x .75 tap which is fairly easy to get around here anyway. I will leave a .010" step from now on because if you tighten the plug real tight, the plug pushes down a bit deeper than the Nelson plug which is a shallower taper, like maybe 30 degrees. 3/16" drill, and .280" hole for the tap drill size. (7.25mm) . We need video though, it is too mushy here to fly for another week or so, and no one goes as fast as you.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Yes...I've read that the basic design principle for all fittings with tapered seats..the angles are not supposed to match. The idea is to NOT let the glow plug bottom out until after it has crushed it's way into the seat as much as it can.
The extreme tip of the plug should meet the seat after the rest of the tip has mated with the tapered seat in the head.

iron eagel

Sounds like you had some fun with it, except for getting it started with the e prop.
Weird thing with the video, isn't it the capture with XP that ends the video?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I'm reading about a lot of random trouble people are having getting camcorder disks to finalize. People who have much more valuable content than I do with these planes.
Sony wants $30 plus shipping to send a replacement software CD. I might as well apply that money to buying a new camera with the hope that I find the original CD some day.
The videos weren't the best I've shot because my aim was low and the plane left the shot more often than what I've been able to capture before. The audio was excellent though. No wind and very little noise from traffic. I want to make sure that if I buy another camera that it has the same quality audio or better as this one.
I'm not able to get into the old speedpattern with so many private planes floating around this field at 200-300 feet. They are doing this next to an busy interstate, houses, boulevards, stores and of course while gawking at my flying.
So, the whole flight is spent flying knife edge laps with very little chance to level out for more than 1/2 a second. It's amazing how well this plane holds any bank angle you leave it in while using just the elevator to steer it around the field.
The 5.25 x 6.25 seems like the best chance this plane has of being fast. I haven't done any work with the carbon props yet but judging from their looks I would put my money on the APC 5.25 x 6.25.
Getting the right shape spinner and starting cone will help, plus mounting the starter to a solid frame and stabbing the spinner into the starter cone leaves a hand free to pinch the fuel line until the engine fires.

iron eagel

Wow your camcorder has a disk, mine uses tape (digital format), gives you an idea of the "vintage" of my Sony. I know a lot of people like using the GoPro cameras these days, given the new technology, there are a lot of options as far as video recording, although with some of them the audio isn't all that great. Point and shoot still cameras that also do video are in the weak audio category from what I have seen.
Just so you know, FAA rules state your supposed to be no lower than 1500 feet over roads or houses, that even applies to ultralight and sport planes, I don't think that one has changed.
It will be interesting to see what type of speed you get out of it once you get it set up. If you where getting up into the 28 K range the plane must have been doing between 160-170 mph (as a guess). It will be interesting to see what you get when you can Doppler it.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Yes, from what I hear you need to buy a nice microphone for these hobby level [cheap] cameras.
With that in mind, might as well get a camcorder that is light, compact, shoots decent video and has a built in jack for a good mike sold separately.

As for the actual speed that I think I saw....it wasn't much above 130-140 mph. So yah, it'll be interesting to see what the doppler says.
It would be embarrassing to see the actual speed less than 120...!
I am beginning to wonder if the unmodified APC 6.5 x 5.5 that I used for the first [successful] flight was the fastest, even though the engine wasn't revving very high. Knowing what is happening with these cheap, guinea pig APC props is important before I start fooling around with the carbon props.
In theory, if you make any type of a change that requires you to open the needle valve [prop, compression, head design, nitro %, timing, porting, etc.] then you have done SOMETHING to increase power. It's all based on fuel demand. If you make any changes that require closing off the needle valve, then you are working in the wrong direction. So far all the props I've tried have not caused more of a change in fuel demand than if the sun ducks behind a cloud in the sky.
I don't know what other guys are using to film their planes, but I'd like to get some testimonials before spending any money on a lemon.
A flash drive type sounds better than the spinning CD type that has the occasional trouble with being finalized before data can be transferred.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

As far as cameras go I am getting tired of the field of view I always see on GoPro footage. Looks good on front of a snowboard or bolted to the forehead of a base jumper, but not my cup of tea for aerial footage. I have held off impulse buying one for this reason, but I cannot say I have delved deep into the subject either.

I bought a Panasonic camcorder back in the '90's that uses mini DV tapes. I haven't used it in years because I hated the tapes. We have 11 tapes of family/whatever footage in our archives, which based on the sticker price of the bloody thing works out to about $140 each. Not the best money I ever spent..

iron eagel

I think the go pro is just a newer version of the old quick cams they work nice for what they are. I know someone who went from a news photographer to doing videos and was using some pricey Sony stuff last I heard (and he always uses a separate microphone). I think your right the flash card format is about he best. The shooters at the paper used them for years, and they took being dropped getting wet and all type of nasty environmental and handling issues, they very rarely ever failed.
It would be interesting to see just how well the bigger prop pulled it, those props are know to often blow by the prop pitch speeds (by a fair amount). Some years back someone actually took data and found it was not uncommon for a plane to outrun the PPS in 10 inch and under props, there was a chart and everything included, from what I recall the smaller the prop the higher the speed.

MTD
The real hassle with the mini DV tapes is that you really always needed to transfer them to another format or have to use the camcorder as a player. And trying to get to the plugs on the tv isn't always the easiest thing to do for me, front panel connectors were not popular on my vintage of electronics as far as video. Heck it was just a couple of years ago I got rid of my last tv that had only a 300 ohm antenna connector on the back, it even had tubes in it.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

OH..that's right..I nearly forgot..!
Camcorders were really expensive back then, so much that I never could afford one.
This Sony Handycam DVD-100 dates back 10 or 11 years. It's really a load [2 to 3 pounds] to have mounted to a hard hat and the threaded insert [1/4"-20] is beginning to tear out of the plastic camera housing. The instructions that come with this camera require the user to be more intelligent than I am to make it possible to have any hope of having a "plug and play" experience.