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German Speed Champioship 2014

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Old 08-04-2014, 09:25 AM
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f3d
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Default German Speed Champioship 2014

Hallo speedfreaks,

here the results and some pictures from the German speed champioship 2014 last weekend. All speed figures are in km/h.

F3S-D 15ccm Platzierungen
Pilot V/max Klasse
1 Schulze Hartmut 407,94 F3S-D
2 Dieffenbach Dag 384,13 F3S-D
3 Mittelstaedt Holger 365,64 F3S-D
4 Heuel Stefan 350,42 F3S-D
5 Jakob Michael 295,38 F3S-D


F3S-C 10ccm Platzierungen

Pilot V/max Klasse
1 Schulze Hartmut 410,26 F3S-C
2 Dieffenbach Dag 386,40 F3S-C
3 Jakob Michael 376,01 F3S-C
4 Heuel Stefan 348,69 F3S-C
5 Mittelstaedt Holger 348,67 F3S-C


F3S-F Elektro Platzierungen
Platz Pilot V/max Klasse
1 Koch Dr. Marcus 488,59 F3S-F
2 Koppenburg Kai 485,52 F3S-F
3 Schalk Christian 475,67 F3S-F
4 Zanker Oliver 458,68 F3S-F
5 Erdt Christian 454,30 F3S-F
Hidde Christian 454,30 F3S-F
7 Schragl Thomas 451,50 F3S-F
8 Baier Stefan 441,99 F3S-F
9 Kahlich Niklas 436,62 F3S-F
10 Gruber Gerd 429,89 F3S-F
11 Moldtmann Tim 422,73 F3S-F
12 Grimm Alexander 422,32 F3S-F
13 Moldtmann Thomas 418,74 F3S-F
14 Wendt Sascha 410,42 F3S-F
15 Felden Mario 406,79 F3S-F
16 Schoell Meinhard 402,25 F3S-F
17 Schweinhuber Markus 401,27 F3S-F
18 Tuchbreiter Jochen 393,74 F3S-F
19 Karpfinger Jakob 372,10 F3S-F
20 Renicke Andreas 355,41 F3S-F
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Last edited by f3d; 08-05-2014 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:13 PM
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Please tell us about picture #15!
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:57 PM
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And 4 & 6.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:14 PM
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picture Nr 15.

a crack in the tuned pipe set the speedmodell on fire in the air. The pilot was able to land but the fire destroied the modell.

picture # 4 & 6 BVM91 had a lean run and the rod come off and make big demage with the internals.

Best regards Michael
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:59 AM
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250 mph with a .60 is pretty respectable, I am surprised an electric can beat a piped .60. Would not have believed it 15 years ago.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:15 AM
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Historically I totally agree, in days of yore nothing beat a hot .60. Power capability versus form factor are all in favour of electric at this point, sad to admit for IC diehards! But IC still sounds cooler and is cooler of course..

A killer 10cc might put out, what, 3kw or so? The F3-S electric models are well over that with similar or better form factor in the power package.
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:40 PM
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I would love to have a go at this type of model with a 4 stroke. The YS 115 looks to be capable to run something around 11x16 in the 12K range.
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:03 PM
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Gravity Games 2014
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I would love to have a go at this type of model with a 4 stroke. The YS 115 looks to be capable to run something around 11x16 in the 12K range.

Dang Shawn
You really have gone over to the dark side!
While I am picking on you, how do you make the radio work with an all carbon fiber plane? Can the radio signal get through to the anetnna, or do you need an external antenna of some sort?
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:12 AM
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Wow.. just converted the 10cc top speed: 254.9mph!
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:44 PM
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Was any video taken?
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Old 10-05-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by HighPlains View Post
Gravity Games 2014
I know you're not a "noob"...but try beating those speeds, even with gravity assist...it really isn't that easy...
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:07 PM
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For the sake of a discussion let us look at a few numbers and see what they mean. The big iron (15cc) should weigh about 5 lbs. and carry at least a 1/2 lb. of fuel. From previous posts terminal velocity of the dives were hitting 290 mph. This means that gravity was contributing about 4.2 hp. Two stroke racing engines have an output power of about 7 hp./C.I., so a .91 should produce about 6.4 hp. However, about the best you can hope for in a prop is a conversion efficiency of about 85%, so the engine/prop is really doing roughly 5.4 hp. When you add up the power from the engine/prop and the dive you end up with 9.6 hp. achieving the 290 mph terminal velocity. So with only 56% of the power available when flown level, the airplane should be capable of about 235-240 mph. Any speed above this is due to energy carried over from the dive.

Caveats: More weight, slower level flight speed. Lower efficiency prop than 85%, also slower level flight speed. Less than 6.4 hp. from engine, well you get the idea.

One final thought, if you pull out of the dive about 1/2 second before a vertical planting, that would imply about a 250 ft. radius. At that speed (290 mph), the model would be pulling in excess of 20 g's (at least initially). In the earlier Speedcups, I noticed that the .40 sized FAI pylon ships were nearly as fast as the heavy iron. It would appear that a higher aspect wing would help maintain energy from the dive.
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:19 AM
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For the sake of discussion, which was asked for-The diving effect, although very helpful to impress, is the reason I have always liked control line speed. It can be timed accurately, and every improvement made can be measured, as well as everything that may not have been an improvement as is often the case. Unfortunately, there is the line drag which is extreme, and the fact that even a .60 on a pipe going over 200 mph is going to pull most people off their feet. I have noticed that while racing control line, a dive can really get you ahead, and that is only maybe a 10 ft. dive. A pylon racer is fairly accurate when an average speed over one lap is taken. Those radar guns getting the top speed after the kamikaze dive don't impress me though.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:14 AM
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Sure, the posted speeds would be lower if the rules forced straight and level entry from XX distance etc. But they don't, they allow diving entry before the timing course, and I don't think anyone disagrees that gravity sure helps the numbers. If a set of rules for straight line RC speed existed that were common to AMA and MAAC, we could have our own events if there were more than three people interested. I bet a few would belly up to the bar. Right now F3 speed seems to be the only game in town. And gravity or no, they break a fair bit of hardware achieving these results so it isn't a cake walk. But I agree it doesn't represent straight and level flight potential.

The MB40 powered models are impressive.. whether pylon models flying straight line or the dedicated speeders. What a potent power package.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:48 AM
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Three people interested? Ya maybe, and I can't fly real fast with rc, so maybe two. I busted my Ace Simple 400 on takeoff with the Norvel .06 trying to go fast. Pretty quick for an old fart. Takes about a minute to go full throttle for me. Maybe 80 mph?, not 250.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:56 PM
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I see it's time again for the annual "talk" about the Speed Cup.
I can find faults with any sport that interests me, but at the end of the day I have a choice between losing interest in that sport, or else continuing to follow it.
I always enjoy to see the coverage year by year of what the Germans and the other participants are doing with these planes.
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:16 PM
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So they can do a dive before the timed speed run. They still go faster than about anything I have, and I have some pretty fast planes.
Impressive speeds.
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:16 PM
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Anything that fast will always interest me. I am sure there must be some video from this year somewhere.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:34 PM
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I get a big kick out of doing the dives and pulling out into a well aimed pass. It's also fun to practice pylon laps for awhile, but I'm partial to doing the diving routine.
After living in Germany in 1978-79 and seeing what little extra space they had designated for recreation [like hunting], it's great to see that they have a dedicated place to fly this crazy event.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:06 AM
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CP, I have watched most of your videos, and wish I could do the dives. I have enough trouble just keeping them over the field when they start to go faster. They get small real fast. I am working on it, it seems more fun than doing 3D stuff to me anyway. Huge loops seem pretty quick on the bottom too.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:17 AM
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The best way to get conditioned for any sort of exercise is through consistent practice and having the proper set up. If you put in your time out there with planes that challenge you, they will eventually become boring, then it's time to inch up to a higher rung.
If your eyes are good enough to pass a driving test, you can see well enough to fly a 600 foot pattern. These planes will practically fly themselves if you let them.
I know guys who got bored driving AA / Gassers at 160-170 mph back in the 1970-80s who needed to move up to AA/FC or AA/TF just to get the thrill back.. They were the ones who were at the track every weekend.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:40 AM
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I have noticed an improvement this year. Most planes I have are still at the top of my skill level, except the trainers which are getting boring. Yes, more practice. Still need a throttle though, not the bladder thing without a shutoff.
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:26 AM
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One of my consistent problems is not setting low rates low enough.. but I've been doing that more and more lately. It really smooths out your flying style when you have to fly big sky. Sure helps when you can grab a handful of something too.. but my left index finger can hit the flight mode switch pretty fast, when I don't miss. I don't like large amounts of expo.
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