Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Noise Questions

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Old 10-19-2014, 06:14 PM
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mmattockx
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Default Noise Questions

I have been out of R/C for a number of years. Back when I flew previously noise was no issue at the places I frequented. Now it seems fields everywhere are twitchy, even if they don't have neighbors. Since fast planes running high RPM are generally noisy I have some questions about my return to flying. The local field I was planning on joining has a 96dB limit. I don't know the exact test procedure yet, but it is a grass field and the testing would have to be over grass as that is all they have.

1) Will a 424 sport quickie plane typically make a 96dB limit?
2) What do all you speed nuts do about noise while still managing to run fast, fun things?
3) There used to be a rule of thumb for prop noise that was something to the effect of "prop diameter X RPM/1000 = 150 or less" to be fairly quiet. What are those numbers today for the 96dB limit?

I have to say all the extra rules compared to my previous R/C experience really suck balls. Maybe I need to buy some property way out in the country so nobody will b!tch about my toy airplanes, motorcycles and shooting.


Thanks,
Mark
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:42 AM
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combatpigg
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Our local club has spent time in court, spent money and time on sound measurements, etc. in defense of their right to exist. After going through all that, I fly speed over a privately owned hay field in a commercial zone.
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Old 10-20-2014, 11:18 AM
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speedracerntrixie
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Most organized racing in the US runs either the stock mufflers or Nelson/Jett mufflers and are not all that loud. Warbird racing is gaining in popularity and use mainly 4 strokes with open headers. My experience is that fast airplanes and racing flourish where they are permitted and die off where there are a group that creates noise issues. The loudest racing are the giant scale unlimited warbirds. Maybe why we race them off dry lake beds in the desert. I would suggest taking on the challenge of going fast within your clubs noise guidelines. Usually the odd man out never wins.
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Old 10-20-2014, 12:30 PM
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mmattockx
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
After going through all that, I fly speed over a privately owned hay field in a commercial zone.
This place has no neighbors closer than ~1/2 mile and that is only a couple of farm houses that are on the far side of the runway from where they fly, so airborne models are even farther away than the runway. It is as safe from noise complaints and encroachment as any non-private field I have seen. I am baffled why they even have a noise limit in place with their set up. I haven't had a chance to talk to the president yet, so I guess I will have to ask him what the deal is. My concern is that the place is run by a bunch of old fudds who won't welcome fast planes no matter how loud they are.


Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Most organized racing in the US runs either the stock mufflers or Nelson/Jett mufflers and are not all that loud.
And that is a really key question - will a 424 Quickie (ie - sport 40/45 with stock or tuned muffler and 9x7 APC prop) make this club's 96dB limit? I have no idea how loud 96dB is in relation to model aircraft because I never had to worry about it before and I would like to know if this has a chance before I join the club and waste my time and money.


Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I would suggest taking on the challenge of going fast within your clubs noise guidelines. Usually the odd man out never wins.
I don't want to fight their rules, I am trying to figure out if I can live within them or will have to look for a different club. This place is really good on everything else - close with a nice grass field that seems to be deserted most of the time and no chance of urban encroachment. But if everything I want to fly is too loud then I will have to look elsewhere for a club that allows some noise.


Mark

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Old 10-20-2014, 12:38 PM
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AMA 424 uses the TT.40 and 9x6 APC. That unit isn't any louder than the other sport engines out there. I doubt you would have any issues. The Jetts and Nelsons are another matter all together, 96db might be a stretch.
If you are chummy with any of the wheels in the club it might help to ask what the driver is for the noise limit. When my club discussed the noise issue we decided to write the bylaws to state the engine used a standard exhuast system or an engine as equipped from the factory. This allows us to run piped engines and the odd old timer/1/2a engine.
How the heck does someone from Calgary go out in the country? LOL

Chuck, you let someone take a picture of you full frontal!!!?
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Old 10-20-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vicman View Post
AMA 424 uses the TT.40 and 9x6 APC. That unit isn't any louder than the other sport engines out there. I doubt you would have any issues. The Jetts and Nelsons are another matter all together, 96db might be a stretch.
That's good news. My concern is the smallish prop and higher than typical RPM making prop noise. I am only concerned with the usual sport engines, the Nelson's and Jett's are out of my reach.


Originally Posted by vicman View Post
How the heck does someone from Calgary go out in the country? LOL
Well, Calgary is more of a landmark for most people in far off places. I actually live in Airdrie and my GF lives in Didsbury. Eventually we will be moving out into the countryside somewhere around the Olds/Didsbury area. The club is the local Didsbury group, it is a 7 minute drive from her place and looks really good if I can fit in with their rules.


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Old 10-20-2014, 01:17 PM
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There is a free App for decibals on an Iphone if you have one or know someone. (RPM too) Then you could experiment to see if it fits in the rules. Radio Shack used to carry a fairly cheap decibal meter. Of course we have no more Radio Shacks around, but the other place may find them, or Ebay. I found the big chain saw type IMAC motors were the loudest, when I lived about a mile from the field. I think the lower pitch noise carries, like elephants. I know the other neighbors near me did not like the noise at all, but were Mennonites, and did not complain much. It did not really bother me at a mile, but you could hear it for sure, and I would guess a quiet day in the country with that noise all and every day could bother you after a while. I could not hear the .60 size ones at all, they flew a bit lower too. Actually if I heard a noise, I would go over and fly, if I had stuff ready.

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Old 10-20-2014, 01:34 PM
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It may help if we knew the specifics. An example would be if you are flying a typical sport Q500 ( wood and foam ) and say a sport .40 with stock muffler. That would dictate a 9 inch prop. Keeping the 9" prop below 17,000 rpm would do well to keep the noise down. Running an APC 9X7 would fit the bill. Now if you go up to a 10" prop then you will have to reduce rpm more and so forth. I do know what you mean about certain crowds singling out a particular airplane. I belong to 2 clubs. One has a couple members that are suggesting I run a " Bigger " prop on my DA 150 powered Extra. The other club invites me to fly the airplane during lunch breaks on race day because the airplane sounds so cool. LOL
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Old 10-20-2014, 01:48 PM
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If you get to know the local club members who live in a semi rural area, get the word out that you are looking for a place to fly speed. Possibly in exchange for helping out with making hay, picking up trash, etc.
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
It may help if we knew the specifics. An example would be if you are flying a typical sport Q500 ( wood and foam ) and say a sport .40 with stock muffler. That would dictate a 9 inch prop. Keeping the 9" prop below 17,000 rpm would do well to keep the noise down. Running an APC 9X7 would fit the bill.
The specifics at the moment are a Lanier Dominator 500 with a Super Tigre 45ABC running the S-T quiet muffler. I may buy a Jett tuned muffler depending on how much fun I have with it stock. I have other planes in mind as well, such as an Outlaw with Thunder Tiger 36 Pro and Jett muffler, a Miss Martha with piped S-T 45 and something for an MDS FIRE 60 that I have two of sitting around (I am thinking maybe a slightly enlarged Screamin Demon). There are other planes as well, but they are mostly pattern and other aerobatic stuff and won't be hard to meet reasonable sound limits with.


Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
If you get to know the local club members who live in a semi rural area, get the word out that you are looking for a place to fly speed. Possibly in exchange for helping out with making hay, picking up trash, etc.
That is a great suggestion. My GF works for the provincial government in agriculture and has made quite a number of contacts with the locals. Asking around about speed flying shouldn't be too tough once I know a few of the local fliers as well.


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Old 10-20-2014, 06:44 PM
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I barely passed a test at a local club field with a Sport Jett .50 with red muffler - ran it up in the pits on an 8.8 x something APC pylon prop, and the club noise officer came skedaddling over, telling me to shut down and I had to come over for noise testing. So I said "sure...", and replaced the pylon prop with a 10-6 and opened the needle a half-turn before heading over for a smoky inspection. I barely passed at 95 dB. Then I swapped back and everyone else who wanted to see the Demon go, including the club pres, was happy.
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MJD View Post
I barely passed a test at a local club field with a Sport Jett .50 with red muffler - ran it up in the pits on an 8.8 x something APC pylon prop, and the club noise officer came skedaddling over, telling me to shut down and I had to come over for noise testing. So I said "sure...", and replaced the pylon prop with a 10-6 and opened the needle a half-turn before heading over for a smoky inspection. I barely passed at 95 dB. Then I swapped back and everyone else who wanted to see the Demon go, including the club pres, was happy.
Another good data point. That SJ must have been shrieking with a small pylon prop on it and I won't be at all close to that kind of power or prop speed.


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Old 10-21-2014, 04:22 AM
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All of the setups you mention are fairly low RPM. The Tiger with a 9x7 is going to be about 16,500. The last 2 stroke I used in a speed application was a Rossi .45 and Nelson muffler. At 17,400 I was definitely over 96 db. MJ makes a good point and it's one that the pattern guys used to do. When sound checks came about they would throw on a prop with more load and fatten up the mixture. Once past the test it was back to the normal set up. Personally I think your best route is to just get chummy with the guys in the club. That and making any kind of effort to keep the noise down will go a long way to greasing the wheels.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:45 AM
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if the fly gas engines there they are over 96 DB for sure. A DLE 20 is over 101 DB and a DLE 55 is 102DB.

If your are just joining the club you will be the odd man out and will not get anything changed. have to work your way in and keep the peace and slowly work on the fast planes. if they all fly normal sport planes and you bring something fast they will scoff at that and wont win. sad but true
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:52 AM
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Its always been that way, show up at the field with something different and somebody's going to poo poo it. The worst I ever had to deal with that mentality is when I started flying IMAC. If I had a dollar for every time I heard " You guys with your big airplanes" Then followed by the accusation that we are too loud, flying too high, flying to far out, getting in the way, etc. Race planes were never much of an issue as most of the clubs I have be a member have had racing series.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:24 AM
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[QUOTE=speedracerntrixie;11903384]Its always been that way, show up at the field with something different and somebody's going to poo poo it. The worst I ever had to deal with that mentality is when I started flying IMAC. If I had a dollar for every time I heard " You guys with your big airplanes" Then followed by the accusation that we are too loud, flying too high, flying to far out, getting in the way, etc. QUOTE]

I am having the same issue. Several years back, before all of the electrics, gas was the way to go. The louder and the more the prop ripped, the better!! I now have a CARF Super Extra 3.2 with a DA 170 running "stock" mufflers and props recommended by DA. It is no longer an acceptable noise level at the flying field. I also fly jets, and according to the "noise control"; jets are more quiet, due to the noise is more directional. Because prop noise is more 360 degrees, verses jets that are more directional, I am thinking of only flying jets. Love my 3.2M Extra though!! Again, I still blame this on electric becoming more the norm at the flying field.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:46 AM
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I was scoffed at once for bringing a Goldberg L'il Toot free flight with a Pee Wee to the field once. My answer was something to the effect that anyone who was too short sighted to appreciate the simple fun involved doesn't deserve to be called a model airplane enthusiast. Funny thing, I had a lot more fun than most of them.

Slightly OT - not noise related - but definitely snobbish-behavior related.
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:17 AM
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using a true muffled pipe can be much quiter than than a jet or nelson type minipipe muffler...and you get more power..the price difference is negligible
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Old 12-06-2014, 06:49 PM
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Cranking up one of these bad boys ......you better have some ear protection
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