Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Thoughts on VQ Models Dago Red

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Old 01-03-2015, 05:27 PM
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petec
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Default Thoughts on VQ Models Dago Red

So after a long time out from RC due to work and family it finally looks like there is light at the end of the tunnel. My pattern planes are all that survived the hiatus as everything else got purged including my DD, Q500 and the treasure trove of engines. Then Christmas comes along and th done thing on my list that I thought my wife would never get me was under the tree... a VQ Models Dago Red as I was looking at the YS 1.15 for power my father in law walks over and says "I have a Jett 76 I will give you for that plane"; now brand loyalty is one thing but a free Jett is something else. Now I have a Jett 76, servoless retracts, and a full compliment of Airtronics digitals for it so to the bench I go.

First order of business it the wing and dihedral, way too much dihedral for my taste. I modified the wing joiner plate and joined the wing so the only dihedral is the taper of the wing from the bottom to the top. I have the top of the wing perfectly flat from tip to tip. Epoxy, milled glass and layer of CF cloth take care of that task.

Second is the firewall, again a layer of CF cloth front and back tie the firewall into the fuselage sides so worries of firewall pulling loose are minimized. I will pin the firewall next to make sure the Jett doesn't eject itself.

Third are the CA hinges that are pre installed, I have no issue with CA hinges and really do like them. I pinned them in place and wicked more thing CA into them for safe measure. The only way they can pull loos now it to take the trailing edge with them.

Now I am to the point of setting incidence, which is nowhere to be found in the documentation so I'm thinking 1/2 to 1 degree. Input on this would be appreciated.

Also, on the subject of that porky wing, since PA does have Winter and flying is a few months away the thought of clipping the wing by a bay popped into my head. Thoughts on this from you guys?

Final note is the Jett 76, how big of a tank and suggestions on props other than the 11x7 APC I have for it? I have cases of CP 30% from my YS pattern days so it will be steady diet of that until it is gone.

One last question.... I see MJD, CombatPigg, Vicman, rude boy, and crazy4flight are still here. Where are ChuckAuger and Razor??

Pete
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:34 PM
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Howdy..!!
Congratulations on a well deserved return to the hobby.
Thoughts about dihedral on a Mustang with an inverted engine. It sets the vertical CG so that the high thrust line is effectively lowered.
The higher the thrust line, the more power wasting UP trim you need for level flight. Having good ground clearance for the prop and short gear legs was the trade off.
CA hinges....I've made them brittle to the point of failiure by hitting them twice with thin CA. This happened a very long time ago and it might not be so true today. Inspect them really good for any signs of where the glue didn't soak in, but just laid in the gap.
I'm starting to sound like Major Buzzkill Buttinski, so on a positive note it's good to have you back and run the Jett like you stole it..!
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:55 PM
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Sounds like it will be a good combination. The 115 would have had you doing a lot more mods to increase strength. A couple thoughts. Reducing the span will not net any speed increase. Increasing wing loading means you would have to fly the wing at more positive angle of attack. That being said you can clip off the tips and replace them with something a bit less draggy. As far as incidence is concerned, I would set everything at zero. A good test is to trim the airplane for level flight at 1/2 throttle and then see what it does at full throttle. If it climbs then you are either nose heavy, have too much positive on the wing or both. This is all provided that the stab and engine are at zero to one another. On a sport airplane you could correct this with down thrust but that would be lost speed. Now the Jett. What muffler do,you have? If it's a Jett muffler there are 3 colors available gold, black and red. The different colors signify the different rpm they are tuned for. A call to Jett will verify what rpm muffler you have. You will want to prop for that rpm. The .76 is not a high rpm engine so if you can get an 11x8 or 11x9 in the rpm range all the better. I'm thinking the .76 May be happiest in the 13k to 14k range. Running anything less then 11" dia will be fruitless on that airframe. If running a pipe you may be able to go long and get enough to run a 11x10 or 11x11.
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Old 01-03-2015, 07:32 PM
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It's a Red muffler and I have a 11x7 and an 11x8 APC sitting here waiting to be bolted on.

I will inspect the CA hinges, I used Radio South CA hinges for years but the ARF CA hinges are horse of a different color.

As for thrust line and engine placement, it is set to what the ARF calls out. Now having said that I can always move the engine and adjust down thrust. The stab is zero and the wing is set to up with the engine set to down thrust but washer fix the last item.
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:31 AM
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Welcome back petec!

The 11-7 and 8 will pull hard for sure, but I think you'll be capping your top speed. My first instinct would be the 10" APC sport props - 10-9 or 10-8 depending how they turn on the bench. The 76L is indeed aimed towards the 14k range, nominal performance is listed as a 12-6 APC at 14k.
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Old 01-04-2015, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MJD View Post
Welcome back petec!

The 11-7 and 8 will pull hard for sure, but I think you'll be capping your top speed. My first instinct would be the 10" APC sport props - 10-9 or 10-8 depending how they turn on the bench. The 76L is indeed aimed towards the 14k range, nominal performance is listed as a 12-6 APC at 14k.
I agree that a 10x8 would net better overall speed potential however not on this drag bucket. I don't see a 10" prop working out but it's only 5.00 to try, who knows
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Old 01-04-2015, 12:51 PM
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I agree the plane does look a little draggy and the wing profile is porky. The good news is I have a lot of APC props to choose from and can always buy more
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Old 01-04-2015, 12:55 PM
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I heard the wing was thick. if it's that bad then no, the 10" prop may not be the winner. I should snag one of these, it's a good platform for dormant engines. Plus, then I'd know for myself what works!
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Old 01-04-2015, 03:40 PM
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It is a thick wing, not 3D plane thick but thicker than a speed plane would have, but then again a thin wing is not going to be very user friendly for a sport plane. I would be curious to see what the dimensions are between this and WM Dago Red.
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Old 01-04-2015, 03:48 PM
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Pete, I'm pretty sure what you have is a tad larger the the WM Dago. The VQ seemed to have a more scaleish outline. You should be able to break 100mph with your setup.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:02 PM
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I guess I'll just have to fly it and see. It will be good practice before I start down the delta path again.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:14 PM
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Too bad you guys don't live in CA. This season is shaping up,to being a great year for racing. We even have a championship event planned that will,include a dash for cash. Mad respect for the guys that can put together a 175 mph airplane but it's a whole different ballgame to fly the same airplane on a course with 3 more guys doing the same speed.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:24 PM
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I might make a flight in March if I'm luck but April is more like it....you guys in CA have it good.
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Too bad you guys don't live in CA. This season is shaping up,to being a great year for racing. We even have a championship event planned that will,include a dash for cash. Mad respect for the guys that can put together a 175 mph airplane but it's a whole different ballgame to fly the same airplane on a course with 3 more guys doing the same speed.
Dash for cash? I'm in! How much is the cash?
Where and what do you fly? I need details!
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Old 01-09-2015, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudeboy View Post
Dash for cash? I'm in! How much is the cash?
Where and what do you fly? I need details!
Its in the planning stage right now. From what I hear the more guys who enter the larger the purse. If the entry fee is 50.00 and 10 guys enter the payout could be 500.00. Now the catch, the airplanes have to meet the same rules as our warbird series. Rules can be seen at Sacramento Area Modelers site. In a nutshell the airplane has to be a WWII fighter or an airplane that has raced in Reno unlimited class. There are minimum wing areas for specific engine sizes. For example gold class all run YS115 and has to have a minimum of 515 sq in wing. This race will take place somewhere in central California.
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Old 01-10-2015, 07:40 AM
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So.. add some area to the tips on a Q500, bolt in a WS115, and paint it up like a warbird? Is that okay? (prolly not..)

It does sound like fun out there!
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:50 AM
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The Jett is mounted, looks like I need to make a little clearance for the muffler. Trimming the cowl.
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:58 AM
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with that spacer and the red muffler you will not be set to run near the 14000. I would start out with a APC 12x7 prop. I think you will see 12,500-12,800 with that set up. once in the air should come up close to 13,300-13,500. This will be your best combo for this plane and engine on the pylon course.

Also on the muffler which looks like it is the standard red one that fit all from 76-120 will need some support at the rear of the muffler or it will break the rear mounting lug on it.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:53 PM
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Actually I may need to add to that spacer by an 1/8" to 1/4" or go header and tuned pipe as I can't get the requisite clearance at the wing saddle. I am hoping I don't need a header and pipe, my other option is moving the engine thrust line down 3/4".
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Old 01-20-2015, 06:10 PM
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buy a new cowl and mount the engine upward at a 45 degree angle. this will put the muffler just above the wing and also in a good spot to reduce drag.
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Old 01-20-2015, 06:11 PM
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Why are you not running a YS anyway?
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Old 01-20-2015, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by petec View Post
So after a long time out from RC due to work and family it finally looks like there is light at the end of the tunnel. My pattern planes are all that survived the hiatus as everything else got purged including my DD, Q500 and the treasure trove of engines. Then Christmas comes along and th done thing on my list that I thought my wife would never get me was under the tree... a VQ Models Dago Red as I was looking at the YS 1.15 for power my father in law walks over and says "I have a Jett 76 I will give you for that plane"; now brand loyalty is one thing but a free Jett is something else. Now I have a Jett 76, servoless retracts, and a full compliment of Airtronics digitals for it so to the bench I go.
This is why I am not running a YS....
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:29 PM
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ha yes i missed that sorry
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:22 PM
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I spoke with Dub today and he suggested milling the exhaust spacer a few degrees to lift the back of the muffler. I'm going to give it a shot and hopefully save me from using a second spacer.
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:36 PM
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something else you can do is whic I think will work better is to get the extra spacer but get the Gold muffler for that engine. that will be closer to red muffler in stock form
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