Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Good first speed plane?

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Old 03-06-2015, 07:01 PM
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stevegauth30
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Default Good first speed plane?

While I thoroughly enjoy my scale planes and warbirds, I'm itching for some speed. What are some readily available kits or plans that would be a good bet for an extreme speed rookie? I'm not new to flying, just never had anything too fast.
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:42 PM
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A .32 to .36 powered Screamin' Demon delta will cruise in the 130 mph range and be easy to get a lot of "stick time" with. APC 8 x 8 props at 18,000 rpm is what to run and what to expect with a tuned pipe.
The wing loading is low enough to allow fairly soft and slow landings.
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:12 AM
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Thanks for taking the time to answer. Is there anything with a conventional wing that would be a good first? Honestly, I'm not too big a fan of deltas. Not to sound like I ask a question and refuse the answer, just wondering. Thanks again.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:20 AM
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airraptor
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What speed are you used to now?
is their a price range looking foor?
What kind of runway you have?
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:52 AM
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stevegauth30
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I have some pretty quick warbirds, probably around 100 mph, ( in a dive anyway) plus this little yellow and black scratch built plane that easily does 100. I fly from grass and pavement. I'm really looking for something I can buy a set of plans for and build myself. Scratch building from plans may cost the same, but the payments are spread out over a period of time as opposed to a lump sum payment of an arf. ( really the only way I can afford to have all the planes I have.) I probably should have specified in the original post that I'm looking for something I can buy or download plans for.
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:48 AM
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Vintage Q500 plans wanted Skat Kat

+ a strong .46 to .50 on a 10-7 or 9-8 prop = 120 to 130, or more depending on the engine. Simple to build. I've seen one outfitted with electric retracts. Add a rudder and tailwheel, have fun.

A classic example, lots of folks fly these for sport, but there are many other ideas. I was just thinking about Skat Kats so it rung a bell. Either that did or the 16oz double-double I just chugged on an empty stomach. Need toast. now.

If you want to get specifics, it would help to tell us what engine or engines you have available for such a project? Or is that on the list too?
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:55 AM
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All you need to do is to get the basic layout of a Q500 plane. Lengths, widths, key dimensions, etc. If you are familiar with typical .40 sized model construction details it doesn't get much simpler that to scratch build a box fuselage and a rectangular wing out of common materials.
With a Thunder Tiger .45 and 9 x 8 prop you will see some improvement over your war birds if you do a nice job with your scratch built plane's wing.
Dave Norman used to sell a wood Q-500 kit or plans IIRC. His screen name is Daven and he used to be a moderator here.
Too bad you don't like deltas. There just isn't any simpler way to get that level of performance. Easy 150 mph from a decent .45 engine.
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:57 AM
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I have tons of glow engines sitting on a shelf. Nothing that I think was designed for speed like a Jett or anything, but ranging from little OS .15's on up to 120's . In that range I have a couple of ST G51's, an OS 55AX, a GMS 56, and I think I still have a couple others I can't think of. Can a basic 2 stroke be used? Or would it need to be modded to get any real speed?
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:59 AM
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I suppose I'm not totally against a delta. But I better like the sounds of the Q500 or skat cat.
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by stevegauth30 View Post
I have tons of glow engines sitting on a shelf. Nothing that I think was designed for speed like a Jett or anything, but ranging from little OS .15's on up to 120's . In that range I have a couple of ST G51's, an OS 55AX, a GMS 56, and I think I still have a couple others I can't think of. Can a basic 2 stroke be used? Or would it need to be modded to get any real speed?
The Thunder Tiger gets the best reviews of the bargain priced engines...but just about any ball bearing, ABC, ABN, AAC engine with shneurle porting will deliver good power. ASP engines are another bargain priced engine with good rpm potential, but with any bargain priced engine built in large batches the factory will cut corners any way they can to offer the lowest price. This is why some people say that buying a Jett engine is a better investment for the long haul. I feel the same way about Webra and the old line of OS engines that were built for high output. These engines can handle 18,000+ for years. I'm in the habit of adding an ounce [or 2] of castor to every quart of store bought model airplane fuel. I mix my own fuel mostly and use SIG castor and Klotz synthetic oils. I mix 100 ounce batches, so 16 ozs of Klotz and 6 to 8 ozs of castor are the first ingredients that get dumped in to the batch.
With the higher oil content you can see a nice steady stream of smoke even while the engine is screaming. I've never had any problems from running too much oil, just extra time and towels spent cleaning up the mess. I think this is key to helping those cheaper engines survive longer at higher than normal rpm.
2 mods that pay dividends that you can do with a dremel and fine tooth carbide rotary file. Raise the exhaust port to 165 to 170 degrees of open duration [if the engine isn't there already] This is as high as you want to go unless you have a true speed plane that can make use of small diameter props.
The longer exhaust duration sacrifices some torque, but will shift the engine's power up into the 18,000+ range. This mod narrows the usable prop range of the engine to ones that allow the engine to rev higher than stock. For example, you would find that the APC 9 x 8 or the Q500 props work better than ever on a .45 to .50 engine you did this mod to.
The 2nd mod is to use the Dremel to lighten the piston. Micro grams make a difference when a piston is going up and down 100s of times per second. You will remove who knows how much strain from the rod and crank pin also. Most engines are under balanced so you might find that the engine runs smoother after removing dead weight from inside the piston. I've gone "too far" a couple of times, so grinding a small dimple into the crank's counter weight was the remedy. It takes a lot of work to hog out a piston far enough to see imbalance issues crop up.

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Old 03-07-2015, 10:33 AM
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Good info. I'm with you that I'd rather spen the money and get quality. I now have a good starting point and will do some research. I'll also keep my eye out for a better engine. If it comes down to it and I build a plane before acquiring an engine I'll slap one that I already have on and see what it will do. Thanks again for the info. I'll try and find a good set of plans.
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Old 03-07-2015, 12:33 PM
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Stick a 9 x 8 on one of the .45 to .50 size engines that you have and see what you got.
What's the worst that can happen...?
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Old 03-07-2015, 12:40 PM
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If I don't have one I'll grab one, and a couple other sizes too. really, the worst that can happen is I throw another in the parts box. Lol.
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:07 PM
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It will be interesting to hear some feedback as to how your engines respond to the props you try.
Some engines have such low exhaust timing that they just wont rev up much when you try lower than normal prop diameters with them.
I have a Rossi .45 that is like that. It is timed for max low end torque for 11 inch "3D" props.
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by stevegauth30 View Post
While I thoroughly enjoy my scale planes and warbirds, I'm itching for some speed. What are some readily available kits or plans that would be a good bet for an extreme speed rookie? I'm not new to flying, just never had anything too fast.
Sig cougar with that OS 55 will be a bullet
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:22 PM
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I may end up buying something more suitable for a speed plane. There's a few nice engines In the classifieds for what I think is a descent price. Hmmm,
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:47 PM
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A few years back I took a .20 sized P-51 kit and customized it to barely fit a .32 engine. Running with a 8 x 8 APC it was a 130 mph combo. The down side was the low wing with high engine thrust line made it zoom downward when hand launched. All launches were "dicey".
I believe [IIRC] I left the wing the "stock" thickness but slimmed down the fuselage. It was fun while it lasted, but no more hand launchers laid out like that for me.
For this reason, a high winged Q-500 with no landing gear makes the plane easy to hand launch and a better overall flyer without the extra weight and drag of landing gear.
Taking a stock Q-500 drawing and red pencilling a slightly thinner airfoil isn't that big of a deal either, just basic Modeling 101.
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:19 PM
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If you want to go fast, get a jet!
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by stevegauth30 View Post
Thanks for taking the time to answer. Is there anything with a conventional wing that would be a good first?
PM sent.


Mark
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Old 03-08-2015, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mmattockx View Post
PM sent.


Mark
PM'd back. Thanks Mark.
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Old 03-08-2015, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Len Todd View Post
If you want to go fast, get a jet!
With a prop plane you can go 180mph for 1/5 the cost of a turbine engine.
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Old 03-08-2015, 07:28 AM
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Even IF I COULD afford a turbine jet, which I can't, I'd have to travel WAY farther than id like to to be able to fly it. And even then, if I DID , somehow come up with the $$$$$$$$ for the jet, I wouldn't be able to afford the fuel. Lol. I'll stick with props for now. Not to say I wouldn't LOVE to fly one.
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Old 03-08-2015, 08:10 AM
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IMO you really can't go wrong with a pylon airplane. They have been evolved to go fast but have good handling manners. Here is a clip taken from the last race I flew in. The last heat in the video was the trophy race and I had bumped up to 55% nitro. Everything was great until I lost a prop blade. Halfway through the race you will see my red Macchi sitting at the end of the runway.


▶ 8:48


[INDENT=3]www.youtube.com/watch?v=rukoXqR_QN0
Oct 5, 2014 - Uploaded by wcolby1
Unlimited Air Races at SCCMAS .... Reno 2010 Jay Consalvi Interview Preview Unlimited ...
[/INDENT]
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Old 03-08-2015, 08:29 AM
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The same macchi I'll ave not soon enough. I'll be building a Q500 to prepare me for one of shawns macchi's. I'm starting to get really excited now. Who knows, maybe I'll get into racing, or maybe I'll be happy just tearing holes in the sky, but either way, I wanna go FAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!
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Old 03-08-2015, 08:51 AM
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The same macchi I'll ave not soon enough. I'll be building a Q500 to prepare me for one of shawns macchi's. I'm starting to get really excited now. Who knows, maybe I'll get into racing, or maybe I'll be happy just tearing holes in the sky, but either way, I wanna go FAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!
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