Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Looking for Pond Racer

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Old 08-04-2015, 07:24 PM
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invertmast
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Default Looking for Pond Racer

So i know of the Air C Race Pond racer, but its as far as i can tell, not available, nor financially realistic to buy and import.

So, i know there have been some 1/4 and 1/3 Pond racers around in the mid/late 90's.

Does anyone have any leads on some kits or molds?, preferable 1/3. Heck, id even be interested in a little foamy to knock around the field for fun

worse case scenario, I'll finish the design of my scratch built one

thanks,
Thomas
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:48 PM
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Carlos G
 
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Hi Invertmast,

At one time Kerry Sterner had a pond racer he was going to campaign at Madera. And it seems to me Dennis Crooks may have had one as well for the GSRA races. You might try one of them for a lead at least .

Good luck
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:49 PM
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Didn't Ralph Braun campaign one too?
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:06 PM
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Hi Low,

Yes I think Braun did campaign one as well. It seemed to me that it was built up rather than a composite model. Never did find out where the plans came from or who actually built the model. Just from my own observations it seemed the model of the pond racer had a rather high wing loading, similar to a P-38. It also seems someone actually produced a foamy Pond racer of a small size. Here is a Y.T. of the Braun Boys racer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKjmhuc4oww


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Old 09-13-2015, 05:47 PM
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Mr. Crooks remembers the pond at madera, but it wasnt him.

The one from Mr. Braun was a glass/foam short kit.. There was one of these kits for sale on RCGroups in 2008 by Fred Baldwin... No joy on contacting yet him.


So far it seems im either stuck with forking out a child for the Air-C-race one from germany, or designing and scratch building my own... I do have roughly 1/2 of the CAD work for a full size one done so far.
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:39 PM
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Hi Invert,

If you have to give up a child, make sure they are an angry teenager, LOL!

Your best bet would be to finish up your CAD work, sell plans, and make a million bucks from them. Well, maybe the first two out of three at least.

An eighty inch model would make a sweet electric twin.

Have you tried any of the Former Braun guys to see if they have a line on drawings?

Good Luck with your project.

Carlos G.
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:48 PM
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Ive got a good set of 3 views. 80" is a bit small, i'm planning on a 1/3 which is around 120".
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Old 09-13-2015, 08:27 PM
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Hi Again Invert,

Just a wild thought, you may wish to consider a smaller size as well. There are allot of people with small to midsize cars that would not mind having a pond racer if they could just get it to fit. Since it will be in a CAD format, would it be possible to scale down to a size that would make it a reasonable model for the rest of us? Might make enough to pay for the props you will need for the large model ! Hmm maybe even sell a construction article to a popular model magazine. You never know...

Best Wishes and keep us posted
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Old 09-13-2015, 08:39 PM
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If only it was as easy to rescale models down in CAD... Well the solid model is, but the individual parts to make the model buildable are not.

That said, the design of a pond racer, even at 80" span doesnt lend itself well to those without a truck/trailer or van. Once the pod, booms, center wing section and stab are assembled, its best to leave it that way... It becomes to much of a structural design challenge for all of that to be removable for compact storage.

The other problem, is I have a set of goals i want to meet with this project. One of them involves a 240mph "race" speed. Another is a 30lb flying weight at most, finally it is to be all electric.

Due to these goals, the wing design and construction techniques wont be possible by the average builder, nor will it be structurally possible with average materials. Lots of composites will be used. The booms and Pod will also be CNC produced and then a set of molds taken from these plugs.

i truely dont expect to sell many if any of these, its just something i want to do. The desire to do so is based strongly on the fact its a very odd and unique airplane AND i was told it wasnt possible..
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Old 09-13-2015, 08:52 PM
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Hi Thomas,

Judging from some of your other models in your gallery I would say you are up to the challenge. If you decide to make a build thread here I'm sure you will have plenty of watchers of your thread.

Sincerely

Carlos G
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:17 AM
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https://www.vth.de/flugmodell-und-te...ge-pond-racer/
regards Martin
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MaHo View Post
What size is it?
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:39 AM
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wingspan 1492mm, lengh 1515mm, weight 4kg,
There is a cnc cut kit of the formers and so on. http://shop.vth.de/laserteilesatz-pond-racer.html
That can be done bigger if needed.
It will be cut from www.fun-modellbau.de
regards Martin
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Old 09-14-2015, 11:51 AM
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Thomas,
Your better off going from the 3 view you have, and going for it.
For inspiration check out this cad work on RCG, "Scale Build-Off 3 - 57" span Northrop Grumman X-47B"
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:31 PM
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Thomas

Here is a Depron fun flier that you can Knock around the field. There was/is a build thread on RCG that I think you will find useful.

Plans here: http://www.rcplans.nl/catalog/index....ce8c0e15aed3fd

Build thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462433

Peace, Wolf

By the way, what became of the Tomcat? I see it littering your shop in recent videos (Shop Update 5-5-15). Did it ever fly?
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BD5wingnut View Post
Thomas

Here is a Depron fun flier that you can Knock around the field. There was/is a build thread on RCG that I think you will find useful.

Plans here: http://www.rcplans.nl/catalog/index....ce8c0e15aed3fd

Build thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462433

Peace, Wolf

By the way, what became of the Tomcat? I see it littering your shop in recent videos (Shop Update 5-5-15). Did it ever fly?
Its still kicking around. Its on the back burner a little bit right now as the gear cost is pretty substantial and i'd like to be able to order 3 sets of gear. I've also decided to take the prototype i usve currently and bare bones it with some fixed gear and a single tail mounted turbine to verify it will fly before i begin investing big $$$$ into it.
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Old 09-23-2015, 09:42 PM
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Good idea Thomas.
a lot of projects did that before.
Fingers crossed for that next step of the F14.
Regards Martin
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:41 PM
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Hey Thomas

I too, share a real interest in this design. 1/3rd scale is a good size, lending to more options when it comes to structural design. Carbon fiber for most of the load-baring structure and E or S glass sandwich for everything else. There shouldn't be a problem keeping the weight down. All the structures are very simple to build light and very strong, your Tomcat is way over built, but it is real tricky when trying to include all the scale detail you are shooting for and I am optimistic that you can pull it off. I build large scale sailplanes and keeping long wings both strong enough and light is the monkey on the back of every designer.
The "potential" of electric power is just going to get better. I started in this hobby in the 70's and saw the early days of Brushed motors and NiCad batteries. Wanna talk about power to weight problems? the entire structure had to be insanely light (read: fragile). Now, I have just about given up on Nitro and Gas, but not completely.
I have converted a few of my old birds to electric. A Senior Telemaster that I wanted to do some FPV work with. bought some pricey UHF telemetry and 500Meg navigation gear, all ready to go. Now it is on the back burner, due to all the idiots with Quads screwing it up for everyone.
Currently, I am designing/building my own CNC Router and CNC Hot Wire table (X = 48" Y = 26" Z =10") that will help me further in my passion for the model aviation bug. I am hoping to get it up and running around January.
I have several designs planned, vintage glass sailplanes like an ASW-15 or -17, the ASW-20 has been over done. Other designs, like the Pond racer, a turbine BD-5, maybe Lear Fan, Cessna Citation...

I look forward to watching your progress.

Peace, Wolf
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:38 PM
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Wolf,
you hit the nail on the head about the F-14 being overbuilt. Ive already decided the current airframe is going to have a short life as a very simple flight test model. Ive already done the math and have determined i can make #2 15lbs light, so it'll go through some weight reduction.
Like all of these big projects, you gotta start somewhere


Ive gotten sidetracker with three other projects, so the pond racer will take a little bit of a backseat, but i will still continue working on the pond designer. One of the projects will help create the pond, so it'll be worth the wait
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:16 PM
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Oh Believe me, I fully understand the backseat issue. And you with kids and all... My kids are off making grand kids for the wife and I. Still, just the daily grind of keeping the homestead in the black gets in the way of so much. I will definitely keep an eye on your progress.

Peace, Wolf
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:59 AM
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Hi Thomas!
Having designed, scratch built, flown and crashed a 22 pound model of the Pond Racer, I want to share my experience with you.

Begin with looking at this video from 2007: http://www.rcmovie.de/video/b7db99ed...mit-Pond-Racer

It was of course a major inspiration for me…so I built my Pond Racer in conventional plywood/balsa construction with foam wings. It had a wingspan of 91 inches, was 77 inches long and was powered by two YS.91 FZ. It flew gorgeous after I found the right C.G. point and was not difficult to handle at all. One reason it flew so well was that I increased the wing chord by 20%.

I can’t fly like the young expert Gernot Bruckmann in the rcmovie but it was great fun for a retired pylon flyer. So continue with your CAD-drawn Pond Racer and enjoy the reward to take your design to the air!

Greetings,
Lars
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