16" APC @ 13,000 rpm...possible?
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16" APC @ 13,000 rpm...possible?
Hey guys, I have have a question. Has anyone really pushed the limits of an APC prop? I mean, are they good for faster than the rated RPM? I have a 14 cell set up on a 3 point hydro boat. Swordfish 300a ESC and a *laugh* Turnigy G160 290kv motor rated for *gulp* 10 cells. Kind of overvolting a bit.
I did test it and chickened out at a near full throttle pull at 12,800 RPM on an APC 16x10 two blade. I have no idea of the amps I pulled because the ESC I chose doesn't have data logging. The thrust calc I used put me in the 30lb range though. http://personal.osi.hu/fuzesisz/strc_eng/
Is that prop going to hold together @ 13,000+ ?
I did test it and chickened out at a near full throttle pull at 12,800 RPM on an APC 16x10 two blade. I have no idea of the amps I pulled because the ESC I chose doesn't have data logging. The thrust calc I used put me in the 30lb range though. http://personal.osi.hu/fuzesisz/strc_eng/
Is that prop going to hold together @ 13,000+ ?
#3
He would be really pulling some amperage by going to that high of pitch... I believe his ESC is rated for 300A, but the motor is only rated for 10-11 cells anyway.
Kurt - how many Amps were you pulling when running that 16x10??
Jeff - do you know where he could get a Carbon Fiber 16x10 that'll handle the rpm better than a regular APC (fuel sport prop, not a thin electric)?
Kurt - how many Amps were you pulling when running that 16x10??
Jeff - do you know where he could get a Carbon Fiber 16x10 that'll handle the rpm better than a regular APC (fuel sport prop, not a thin electric)?
Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 08-19-2015 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Elaborated
#5
I know I'll be testing the waters with an APC 10" diameter prop sometime maybe early next year when I do the final pipe tuning on a 56LX. But the 56LX doesn't even compare to a brushless electric outrunner putting out close to 10hp.
Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 08-19-2015 at 06:05 PM.
#7
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CP prob using a MA prop or those old Kavan props that would come apart at 8000 rpm. I have ran many 16 APC props around 11,000 in the air not recommended by APC but they did hold. Also a Carbon prop can be had for about 400 dollars for the mold but don't copy any prop made out there with out the owners permission, IE don't be China.
A 16x10 and 15x12 are very close to the same load in not a a few more RPM to the 15x12 over the 16x10.
If you really want to try some rpm with it get it away from people and or try a wood prop also.
A 16x10 and 15x12 are very close to the same load in not a a few more RPM to the 15x12 over the 16x10.
If you really want to try some rpm with it get it away from people and or try a wood prop also.
#10
I know a shedded blade can be bad news, no doubt. I was also asking not for the mould to make a prop, but merely if there's a carbon prop that big that would handle the rpm he's running at as a safety margin.
Wood props are a no-no on boats. When they hit the water at rpm they shatter. The OPs setup is on a 20lb airboat hydrofoil. He's already had it going 68mph or so.
Wood props are a no-no on boats. When they hit the water at rpm they shatter. The OPs setup is on a 20lb airboat hydrofoil. He's already had it going 68mph or so.
#11
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I used to run an APC 12X12 electric at 14k but it was useing a big 700 heli motor on 12s, I had no issues, but as you go bigger you get closer to the tips going sub sonic, there are caculators out there that help you measure tip speed. If you get the tips going to fast they can have issues.
If I was to turn one that fast it would have to be a nitro prop not a electric apc.
I like your power set up.....
If I was to turn one that fast it would have to be a nitro prop not a electric apc.
I like your power set up.....
#12
He is using a glow engine prop. We've ran our speedy airboats together several times and I've seen the boat the OP speaks of run a few times. It's quite impressive to see 20# of plywood flying at 60+mph on the water.
A 16" prop turning 13k has a tip speed of about 618mph or .8 mach. According to DuBro's RC Flight Source smartphone app anyway. It said "rpm too high". A 12" prop at 14k is 499mph tip speed/.7 Mach and "good rpm range". I've done a lot of looking online for a carbon prop manufacturer that has rotational speed limits for their props but I've come up short. APC lists figures for their carbon pylon props, but they're the small .40 pylon props.
A 16" prop turning 13k has a tip speed of about 618mph or .8 mach. According to DuBro's RC Flight Source smartphone app anyway. It said "rpm too high". A 12" prop at 14k is 499mph tip speed/.7 Mach and "good rpm range". I've done a lot of looking online for a carbon prop manufacturer that has rotational speed limits for their props but I've come up short. APC lists figures for their carbon pylon props, but they're the small .40 pylon props.
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If it is going to run 65-70mph, I am curious as to why so much pitch at those rpm? Seems to me more disc area (3 blades?) and about 8" pitch would do a better job of pulling a draggy boat faster than a 12-12 at 12k or so rpm. 12" pitch at 12k is a pitch speed way over 100mph - so the blades are running a high AoA all the time at the lower forward speed and may be wasting some energy. Or put another way, I think it would pull harder in the 60-80 speed range. Just a thought.
Man that thing has some hp!
Man that thing has some hp!
#17
Well, we have to prop our airboats a bit differently than an airplane... Usually smaller diameter at least, sometimes less pitch depending on hull design. What would be normal for a 20lb airplane and comparable 7-10hp engine?
#19
Edit:
16" diameter prop is the biggest he can fit.
Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 08-20-2015 at 06:01 PM.
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http://www.chiefaircraft.com/mej-16x10.html
Is this a better choice, I wonder?
They are hollow blade but that doesn't concern me as much as spinning the crap out of large injection molded molded props.
Is this a better choice, I wonder?
They are hollow blade but that doesn't concern me as much as spinning the crap out of large injection molded molded props.
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I once used a 12x12 prop on a 10s system for a prop jet I had and I turned it at 21,000 rpm. It was a Graupner prop that was rated for 14,000 so I was a full 50% over it's limit but it never gave me a problem at all. Just make sure it is completely undamaged, perfectly balanced and on a solid and straight shaft. Also, don't use the aluminum collets, use stainless steel. The kinetic energy in these prop blades is incredible at these speeds so my recommendation is don't push it up until you are at a safe distance from anything that could be impacted by an exploding prop. For me, that meant limiting the RPM to 12,000-14,000 except for 10-20 seconds per flight where I would switch flight modes, unlock max RPM and let her rip. It was a hell of a sound as she flew by and it really turned heads, but it requires serious respect to stay safe.
Josh
Josh
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I used a Scorpion 700 size helicopter motor with a 540kv on a 10s setup. You can see a video of the plane itself here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU-PJe84JK4
As I said, I limited it to 60% total power for all flight operations except high speed passes. Even at 60%, there was more then enough power for any flight operation or stunt. At full power though, it was awesome. It pulled about 5500 watts at about 150 amps. Flight time was about 3.5 minutes but it was exciting!!!!
Josh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU-PJe84JK4
As I said, I limited it to 60% total power for all flight operations except high speed passes. Even at 60%, there was more then enough power for any flight operation or stunt. At full power though, it was awesome. It pulled about 5500 watts at about 150 amps. Flight time was about 3.5 minutes but it was exciting!!!!
Josh
#24
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Hey guys, I have have a question. Has anyone really pushed the limits of an APC prop? I mean, are they good for faster than the rated RPM? I have a 14 cell set up on a 3 point hydro boat. Swordfish 300a ESC and a *laugh* Turnigy G160 290kv motor rated for *gulp* 10 cells. Kind of overvolting a bit.
I did test it and chickened out at a near full throttle pull at 12,800 RPM on an APC 16x10 two blade. I have no idea of the amps I pulled because the ESC I chose doesn't have data logging. The thrust calc I used put me in the 30lb range though. http://personal.osi.hu/fuzesisz/strc_eng/
Is that prop going to hold together @ 13,000+ ?
I did test it and chickened out at a near full throttle pull at 12,800 RPM on an APC 16x10 two blade. I have no idea of the amps I pulled because the ESC I chose doesn't have data logging. The thrust calc I used put me in the 30lb range though. http://personal.osi.hu/fuzesisz/strc_eng/
Is that prop going to hold together @ 13,000+ ?
Then I vacuum bag the whole assembly. I use a Food Saver for small jobs like my props or firewall laminations but any bagging will do. Let the thing cure for at least 24 hours. If you were careful with epoxy saturation and are careful sanding the prop shape with no cutting through, the prop should be almost balanced. Regardless, re-balancing is a must.
I make many of my larger gasoline props using electric woodies as blanks, so far up to 26". The end result is much lighter than a regular wood prop for up to 80cc engines and far more durable. In fact, if you don't feel comfortable working with the APC nylon, take an e-woodie of the size you want and laminate it as I described. The wood makes a terrific filler and the carbon cladding makes for a very tough, stiff, efficient due to the thin blades and light, true composite. Then you can brag to your racing buds that you fashioned it yourself....
Good luck