Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

1995 Diamond Dust speed article

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Old 12-17-2015, 09:12 PM
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Default 1995 Diamond Dust speed article

Found it! By accident of course, rooting through piles of crap looking for nothing in particular except for maybe a mag that needed another read. I've referred to this article in a few other threads in the past. I can scan it tomorrow, the scanner is on the desk in our bedroom now and the missus is sleeping. But this is legible enough I hope.

9x9 APC on an OS .46 VF-DF, no cowl, 207mph is noted here as a radar track. It took a cowled Nelson FAI .40 for CP to break the magic number by two. I've nibbled on it with a cowled OPS .65 (now a fresh .67). Beats me.. whaddya all think?

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Old 12-17-2015, 09:17 PM
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p.s. a 10x10 on a DF .46..? Interesting choice.
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Old 12-17-2015, 09:29 PM
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A 9-9 is a helluva lot of prop even for an engine that's giving up 5000rpm or more to a Nelson. Combine that with more span and greater area than a Demon and it gets a bit unbelievable. Is the DD notably thinner than the Demon?
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:24 PM
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I remember those postage stamp sized ads about the 200 MPH Diamond Dust way back then but never did see this article.
The quest for 200 with the Nelson 40 was a gradual, step by step process with different props and compression settings. If you recall, once I felt I was headed in the right direction with "propellor tuning" there was a bunch of runs strung together in the mid to high 190's before finally breaking through with a lean pass at 202 before the engine quit.
I was taking raw CF blank props in the 7 x 7 range and modifying them based on hunches, intuition, TLAR, etc.
I didn't consider the 202 pass a fluke, it was just a matter of time after flirting with 200 on several tries beforehand. After a couple dozen attempts at roughly $10 to $20 per flight, I don't recall any more flights after it hit 200.
The other PITA besides breaking props and blowing plugs was breaking the speed sensor's pitot tubes that stuck out the LE of the wing. A swept LE "plows" grass up against the tubes and snaps them off.
Look at the dozens of engine prop combos that have been presented at this forum over the years.
Lots of Jett FIRE setups but not many Nelsons.
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Old 12-18-2015, 09:11 AM
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Well, I never built a DD. Mike Connors certainly did and thus the original Demon was born. Others have told me the Demon moves a bit faster on the same engine. Even if they fly the same speed - I wouldn't expect an OS .46 DF + 9x9 to do more than the... hmmm, 170's or so on a Demon. The engine would be down the power curve and crying for another 4-5000 rpm. I dunno.

I know it took you some work to get there CP - which is why I take this with a grain of salt.

If I eventually get an OPS .45 on a Demon with a cowl, that will be a data point to compare. It might be a brute but it still isn't an FAI .40, though as I understand it they will outrun the OS .46 DF.

Last edited by MJD; 12-18-2015 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 12-18-2015, 01:32 PM
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This article is quite an endorsement for the OS.46VRDF and 9 x 9 combo...!
I wonder how many readers went out and bought all the stuff to duplicate these results...?
Especially the 2 pound 11 oz RTF Diamond Dust...?
I never built a DD from a kit, just from construction photos I've seen here. The tubular leading edges and "covering sag" airfoils of the DD would seem to be inferior to the Demon's more sculpted design.
The first DD I built would hum like a snare drum at certain speeds. I've never been able to duplicate that. I don't think it was the elevons fluttering, it was the Monokote buzzing like a snare drum.
I would like to see someone duplicate the OS .46DF / 9x9 APC / Diamond Dust combo and post the results to be analysed here.
None of the speed claims I've ever read go into any detail about work that was done to the props. They always sound like the guy just reaches into his bag full of store bought props, scrapes off the price tag and then hits 207 without a cowl.....
Where can I sign up for some of that...?
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Old 12-18-2015, 04:29 PM
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ORIGINAL: ChuckAuger

OK
OS 46 VF is 148 degrees exhaust duration.
OS 46 VRDF is 168 degrees exhaust duration.

Chuck Auger was a pretty active poster here about 10+ years ago.
I am curious if he ever posted his results with these engines on a .40 sized delta.


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Old 12-18-2015, 04:38 PM
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Just looked at my Nelson S/S and it appears to be about 175 degrees. Anyone know the exact number?
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
This article is quite an endorsement for the OS.46VRDF and 9 x 9 combo...!
I am interested in how it ran with the 10x10.
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:26 PM
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There was another forum poster a few years back who reported similar with his N Q.40....just shy of 180 degrees.
I don't recall ANY .40 sized delta threads with the Nelson Q40 engine. The only N Q40 based thread I recall was with a Weston Magnum plane and the owner was able to hit 195 mph.
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MJD View Post
I am interested in how it ran with the 10x10.
I can't imagine any other way but on the verge of overheating unless the needle was set too rich for a full 2 cycle scream.
The 10x10 is a .90 sized prop, isn't it...?
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:37 PM
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Wow, even a Nelson Q40 isn't as fast as a West .50 with an APC 8x10, that'll take it to 200 according to the box. But wait, my Demon only did about 170-175 with the West .50 running about 21k on an 8.875x9.25 and open pipe..so the only conclusion is that the Demon is slower than the Magnum R and the DD. And yet, for 6 years people have been telling me how much faster their Demons are. Oh yeah, and I pulled my West out of a Magnum R and dropped it into my first Demon, and it was way faster. The difference was significant, many who knew the Magnum commented on it. No wonder I get confused.
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
I can't imagine any other way but on the verge of overheating unless the needle was set too rich for a full 2 cycle scream.
The 10x10 is a .90 sized prop, isn't it...?
It's the perfect prop for a Jett .90LX. Which is supposed to turn it about 16k.
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Old 12-18-2015, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MJD View Post
Found it! By accident of course, rooting through piles of crap looking for nothing in particular except for maybe a mag that needed another read. I've referred to this article in a few other threads in the past. I can scan it tomorrow, the scanner is on the desk in our bedroom now and the missus is sleeping. But this is legible enough I hope.

9x9 APC on an OS .46 VF-DF, no cowl, 207mph is noted here as a radar track. It took a cowled Nelson FAI .40 for CP to break the magic number by two. I've nibbled on it with a cowled OPS .65 (now a fresh .67). Beats me.. whaddya all think?

Thanks for the Waay back MJD! That article launched me on a VERY long, exhausting, expensive, and VERY rewarding quest for speed.
Along the way I learned that I cared about handling characteristics at least as much as rare velocity, but I also learned that rare velocity enhances ballistic handling characteristics. Go figure.

P.S. I am about to unload a number of engines in the Buy/Sell section to help with college expenses, a few new (old stock) Jett jewels among them!

Merry Christmas to all here at ESPP!!!
C.R.
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Old 12-18-2015, 08:02 PM
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Nice to hear from you C.Roundy..!
How time flies.
Your posts back in the day were a big part of what got me interested in this stuff.
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
Nice to hear from you C.Roundy..!
How time flies.
Your posts back in the day were a big part of what got me interested in this stuff.
Thanks Combatpigg, I recall doing a damn sight more than just reading your insights with relish too.
I still shake my head and laugh once in a while when I read that some protege' that I nominated as worthy of care in this forum is continueing to forget where they learned given things, and is still habitually spouting facts without crediting their teachers as if they figured that complex stuff out all by themselves .....

Anyhow, I've learned alot from you, and the day that I realize that I can't remember who to give credit to when I am explaining something to someone will be a sad day indeed for me .

P.S. I still remember to pray for your lost Son, and especially, to thank him for his service.

Best wishes to you and yours for these Holy holidays you brilliant, dumb, nazi fuk. You are loved.

Chuck Roundy
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:21 PM
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Well, all I have ever done is steal ideas from others..!
A Pack Rat of other people's ideas....
BTW, thanks for your sentiments about Charlie..it's been almost 10 years now.
I'm not sure where this "NAZI" stuff is coming from though.......
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:06 PM
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I'm not sure where this "NAZI" stuff is coming from though.......

Aww crap, seriously? Pigness, don't make me embarassed for you. Those of us that have been around that long ALL remember which direction the ends pointed on the huge swastika that you habitually spread on your bed, which you photographed your airplanes upon over and over!

I for one realize that you were going through a HARD time at the time, but to lie about it is beneath you. I hope.....
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:32 PM
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Like it good one Chuck! Post a link if you have this one on vid.

Here you go cleaned up surrounding objects and gave it a artsy look.

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Old 12-18-2015, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper View Post
Like it good one Chuck! Post a link if you have this one on vid.

Here you go cleaned up surrounding objects and gave it a artsy look.

WOW..!
That looks much nicer than the gray primer..!
C.Roundy...actually that flag is what my dad came home with after flying 84 combat missions while stationed at St. Lo Belgium. His plane has developed a "cult following" with scale modelers and video gamers........
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Old 12-19-2015, 01:00 AM
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Nice shot of dear ol dad in his stompin days!

Here is another similar in the air not as lean as yours nor as much yaw stability, but looks good on this pass.

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Old 12-19-2015, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by combatpigg View Post
WOW..!
That looks much nicer than the gray primer..!
C.Roundy...actually that flag is what my dad came home with after flying 84 combat missions while stationed at St. Lo Belgium. His plane has developed a "cult following" with scale modelers and video gamers........
Bull**** and you know it, shame on you for putting your Dad's name and accomplishments in it.

I reiterate: You sir, are a brilliant, dumb, nazi fuk. At least until you own up to your self. And yet, I still wrap you up with my best wishes.

In the mean time, stop for goodness sake from kidding your self. You are not fooling any one here while I am here.

Have you ever heard of the "way back machine" ? Do not force me to repost your hateful imagery.

You just couldn't leave it alone when I said happy Holy holidays could you. Now I'm clocked in.

Nonetheless "combatpigg", I still wrap you up with my best wishes dumbass.

C.R.
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper View Post
Nice shot of dear ol dad in his stompin days!

Here is another similar in the air not as lean as yours nor as much yaw stability, but looks good on this pass.

I've seen this plane before and noted the similarity too. I don't remember if I "borrowed" the design from this one directly or not.
Actually, if you take a side view of the equipment that the FG skin needs to wrap...you come up with this for a front end.
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by C_Roundy View Post
Bull**** and you know it, shame on you for putting your Dad's name and accomplishments in it.

I reiterate: You sir, are a brilliant, dumb, nazi fuk. At least until you own up to your self. And yet, I still wrap you up with my best wishes.

In the mean time, stop for goodness sake from kidding your self. You are not fooling any one here while I am here.

Have you ever heard of the "way back machine" ? Do not force me to repost your hateful imagery.

You just couldn't leave it alone when I said happy Holy holidays could you. Now I'm clocked in.

Nonetheless "combatpigg", I still wrap you up with my best wishes dumbass.

C.R.
Wow...I won't force you to re-post that "hateful imagery" but feel free to do so since I can't find the original that I took of it.
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by C_Roundy View Post
Thanks for the Waay back MJD! That article launched me on a VERY long, exhausting, expensive, and VERY rewarding quest for speed.
Along the way I learned that I cared about handling characteristics at least as much as rare velocity, but I also learned that rare velocity enhances ballistic handling characteristics. Go figure.

P.S. I am about to unload a number of engines in the Buy/Sell section to help with college expenses, a few new (old stock) Jett jewels among them!

Merry Christmas to all here at ESPP!!!
C.R.
Curse you CR, I've been fighting an engine buying habit for a while, been clean for weeks, and now look who crawls out from his hiding place and posts this little tidbit..

Despite all our bravado flying these things.. yeah good handling has its perks doesn't it. Esp as the years march on and the magic thumbs just get stupider and stupider.

Good to see you pop in to say howdy!
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