Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

here you go...fast prop planes...fill 'er up

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Old 05-20-2002, 01:49 AM
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mvigod
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Default here you go...fast prop planes...fill 'er up

Diamond dusts, modified quickies, flying wings, Whiplash, Shrikes, custom builts...if you are one who has the need for speed with a prop driven plane discuss it here!
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Old 05-20-2002, 02:37 AM
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Dave McDonald
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Default Thanks Marc!

Wow! Finally a forum to keep in touch with other Diamond Dust type flyers.....and I don't have to go wading through a bunch of forums just to find a Diamond Dust related thread. Thank you Marc!!!
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Old 05-20-2002, 03:06 AM
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Default here you go...fast prop planes...fill 'er up

well, i dont own any of the mentioned planes, but i do have a WM midget mustang with an os .91 fx in it turning a 13x10 3 bladed prop,i dont have to tell you the thing is an absolute bullet. I was actually asked not to fly it at our polar bear fly because it made the elder members a little ( lot ) nervous, which they all fly sig kadet seniors and astro hog thingy's so not much speed there. theres nothing like taking a full throttle pylon turn at the end of the runway without dropping any speed, its awesome, i definitley feel the need for speed!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-20-2002, 03:44 AM
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Default here you go...fast prop planes...fill 'er up

those planes mentioned are just examples...anything real fast goes here! enjoy!
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Old 05-20-2002, 04:42 AM
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Default here you go...fast prop planes...fill 'er up

Dave MacDonald is your picture a Diamond Dust? Give us the specs on your plane. Where can you buy a kit?

Thanks
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Old 05-20-2002, 10:48 AM
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Edgar Perez
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Default here you go...fast prop planes...fill 'er up

http://www.diamonddustrc.com/
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Old 05-20-2002, 06:58 PM
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Default Great Forum!

Good show Marc! Should be a great forum!
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Old 05-20-2002, 08:10 PM
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Default ultimate speed

with any luck this should be the fastest thing with an ic engine.
very,very expensive to run @ around 30 per 1 miniute flight
clocked in eccess of 200mph on radar, how much ? i dont want to say at the moment as a world speed record attempt is in the near future and that stands at 213mph.
can just say that if i get the reliability will by far superceed that.

got the idea from a fellow club flyer who holds the outright speed record using a turbine at 254 mph.see amt web site.

the plane is a much modified weston uk magnum,
no external horns,kinkages ets.

engine hand built turning 35,ooo rpm on hand crafted carbon props, pipe inside fuzz

extremely noisy,extremely fast and seems a lot faster due to its size.

no carb......no throttle, just an engine kill system

fully glassed, solid carbon rods set in wing and tailplane
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Old 05-20-2002, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: ultimate speed

Originally posted by extra330
with any luck this should be the fastest thing with an ic engine.
very,very expensive to run @ around 30 per 1 miniute flight
clocked in eccess of 200mph on radar, how much ? i dont want to say at the moment as a world speed record attempt is in the near future and that stands at 213mph.
can just say that if i get the reliability will by far superceed that.
Why is this thing so expensive to run?

There are 2 guys in my club who have F3D pylon racers that have been clocked on the radar gun at 350kph (217mph), in a straight line in the pylon course. They're using engines that are manufactured here in Aus by Ranjit Phelan, a fellow pylon racer. I think they're turning +34K revs with carbon props too. On straight 4:1 methanol:castor fuel too....no nitro

Is your recorded speed in a straight line, or at the bottom of a dive?

Where and when is this world speed record supposed to happen??
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Old 05-21-2002, 01:50 AM
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Dave McDonald
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Default Diamond Dust

Originally posted by jlchapman
Dave MacDonald is your picture a Diamond Dust? Give us the specs on your plane. Where can you buy a kit?

Thanks
Yep, it's my Diamond Dust.......or more correctly......WAS my Diamond Dust....

I flew this Diamond Dust for several years with a variety of engines including the piped K&B 7.5cc DF engine shown in the photo. It was also flown with an OS 32 with a Mousse Can Pipe (MCP), a Webra 32 with a MCP, a Thunder Tiger Pro 36 with a MCP, an OS 40FP with a MCP, and a Thunder Tiger 42GP with a MCP. Last year an elevon servo failed on it's final flight and it plowed in at full throttle with a piped K&B 6.5cc in the front.

You can see and read more about my late Diamond Dust on my website at:
http://mypage.yhti.net/~dmcdnld/diamonddust.htm

As guaraguao already posted, you can buy a DD from www.diamonddustrc.com.
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Old 05-21-2002, 06:17 AM
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extra330
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Default expensive!

because unlike pylon racers this has no undercarriage,
pic attatched on prop clearance,
and so even with the prop set to horizontal when the engine cuts
9 times out of ten the prop goes on landing,
props being also thinned down so thin you can see through them in places,
sounds dangerous but they are strong enough and never had one let go in flight,
1 plug per start 5
1 prop per run 30
also running on castor straight

radar on straight and level flight

tony
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Old 05-21-2002, 09:59 AM
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Default cowled motor

seem's that you could improve the drag coefficient a little more with a cowled motor. what motor is that anyway. RR
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Old 05-21-2002, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: expensive!

Originally posted by extra330
because unlike pylon racers this has no undercarriage,
pic attatched on prop clearance,
and so even with the prop set to horizontal when the engine cuts
9 times out of ten the prop goes on landing,
props being also thinned down so thin you can see through them in places,
sounds dangerous but they are strong enough and never had one let go in flight,
1 plug per start 5
1 prop per run 30
also running on castor straight

radar on straight and level flight

tony
Sorry for the bombardment of questions, but I'm curious.......
What sort of engine is that? Displacement?
Where are you getting your prop blanks from? 30 quid seems rather expensive for what looks like a carbon pylon prop.
What sort of plugs are you using? Same as in the Nelson or MB engines?
What does the model weigh?
What section did you use for the wing?
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Old 05-21-2002, 01:00 PM
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Default answers

some more details as requested

props are carbon and come from bruce de chastel , australia, via bruce illingworth....uk pylon champ.

engine........ i have been asked by the manufacturer to say nowt at the moment until or if a record is attained but it is a 40 size ish.

ther plugs are direct from usa and are the same as nelson / mb.....globee , by the time i order pay import tax etc they are just over 5 each


model weight 4.5 lbs,
this weight, because as revious post both wings and tail are carbon spar reinforced, full plane glassed and then 2 pac paint
2 pac instead of cellulose because of landings on the belly,harder paint.

the wing section is as supplied in the original kit from weston uk apart from the carbon,glassing and a bit of re-shaping.

have had a whole lot of help from people in the pylon scene around the world, but mainly in uk.
not a bragger whatsoever but like talking about this plane mainly because i do not build whatsoever, no time,tools room etc
but with this i had to do it myself in order to meet part of the rules in a record.
took me around a year and then another year testing and re adjusting bits.

absolutely rock steady flight,

digital servos on elevator and ailerons
analouge for engine kill,
pcm rx
all internal control linkages

and for a reply to enclosing engine with cowl........it hasa been done but cannot get enough cooling round the fins and from testing there is no dissadvantage speed wise with how it is in the picture.

like i have said previously just needs a few more test flights as the reliability has not been 100%

mostly due to the pipe and its set up, keeps/kept blowing the pressure nipple out of pipe.

think i got it right now,
will post news on next test session,probabally at the weekend,allthough the weather here in uk is poor at the moment
.
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Old 05-21-2002, 01:23 PM
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Default here you go...fast prop planes...fill 'er up

most the magnum prop snappings in our club are becase they come in too slow and it rocks forward as the tail hits first and the prop gets too close to the ground, as your finding.
landing on the shorter grass of the patch also helps
I notice you have the old wing, i thought you had the new ARFT one, so i bet you have no glide at all.
personally, i'd add a little skid just under the tank to raise the nose a little and hopefully save those props. for me 30 vs slight drag is a trade off i'd make, but im got going for records
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Old 05-21-2002, 01:38 PM
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Default glide.....what glide???????????

very true,
i have seen a breeze block with more glide.....
that is the biggest downfall with the weight and wing section of this plane,
honestly dont think the artf woulf stand the power of more than they recommend,

mine was right on the limit before upgrading it
esspecially coming out of the bottom of a loop at full power, the elevator was giving loads of blowback.
hence the re designed internal linkages and a digital servo
this is now cured
the wxl i ran in it, i was only able to throttle half and above,below that and it died,
the motor being used now has no carb so is at full chat 35-36000, into the turns into loops etc,
for fun i put a G meter in it and what i thought to be quite smooth turns came out at 21g`s 94.5 lbs
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Old 05-21-2002, 04:13 PM
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Steve Collins
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Default here you go...fast prop planes...fill 'er up

Here are some examples of the "extreme" planes that I have built over the years in my quest for speed:

1. Jack Stafford P-39 with thinned down airfoil. no landing gear, equipped with an OS .91VRDF ducted fan engine and full length Mac's Products nitro pipe (like the boat racers use). Lost to receiver failure on second test flight. This was a try at topping 200 mph with a .40 size Warbird. Didn't last long enough to get it dialed in.

2. A scratchbuilt Heinkel HE-100 approximately .40 size. This one has a thinned down fuselage and very thin wings with fixed gear. It is powered by a Nelson .40 rear exhaust engine fed by a large open Venturi. This one is consistently around 150 to 155 on the radar in level flight.

3. A Great Planes Patriot with retracts powered by the same engine and pipe setup as described above for the P-39.

4. A Great Planes P-51, fixed gear, powered by an old OS .65VRDF ducted fan engine using the short Magic Muffler that was designed for use with the K&B .67 boat racing engine. Turning a 10X7 prop it radars pretty consistently at 115mph. The engine is verrry old and worn out but performs quite well in this application.

5. A Great Planes P-51, fixed gear, powered by an OS 1.20 SurpassII running on 25% nitro Cool Power. This one is about the same speed as the one above.

5. A Great Planes P-51, fixed gear, clipped wing, powered by a YS 1.40. This one averages in the 140s. Actually this one belongs to a friend of mine. I retrofitted split flaps onto his wing because even at a very low idle the props he uses still develop enough residual thrust to keep this one airborne. Until the flaps were fitted, on every landing you had to practically crashland the plane because it just wanted to keep on flying. Of course deadstick landings were no problem.

While not what I would consider an "extreme" setup, I have a new, as yet unflown, BVM Ultraviper powered with all BVM equipment. The manufacturer rates this plane at up to 220mph with this setup. Personally, I doubt it will be that fast but it should at least be close to 200.
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Old 05-21-2002, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: ultimate speed

Originally posted by extra330
with any luck this should be the fastest thing with an ic engine.
very,very expensive to run @ around 30 per 1 miniute flight
clocked in eccess of 200mph on radar, how much ? i dont want to say at the moment as a world speed record attempt is in the near future and that stands at 213mph.
can just say that if i get the reliability will by far superceed that.

got the idea from a fellow club flyer who holds the outright speed record using a turbine at 254 mph.see amt web site.

the plane is a much modified weston uk magnum,
no external horns,kinkages ets.

engine hand built turning 35,ooo rpm on hand crafted carbon props, pipe inside fuzz

extremely noisy,extremely fast and seems a lot faster due to its size.

no carb......no throttle, just an engine kill system

fully glassed, solid carbon rods set in wing and tailplane

What record are you going after? FAI I presume? THis will be very hard to beat, as was written by Maynard Hill several months ago in MAN I think, the Russians got it, the fix was in and now it is basically unbeatable.

If you are talking about the kind of "records" that the UK AMT Bandit claims, I flew faster than that at my club field every weekend, and a guy in Austria clocked over 300 mph with GPS equipped Bandit
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Old 05-21-2002, 09:50 PM
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Default record

only interested in the fai , and i know it will be extremely hard to get through the red tape ( so to speak )
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Old 05-21-2002, 09:57 PM
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Default going faster

where on the fai web site can i view this record, stat's, spec's and parameter's. RR
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Old 05-21-2002, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: record

Originally posted by extra330
only interested in the fai , and i know it will be extremely hard to get through the red tape ( so to speak )
yeah I just looked it up, it is written in the December 2000 Model Airplane News, by Maynard Hill. He has held many FAI records and I think he works for a US UAV manufacturer, very respected guy in the states.

He basically laid out the issues with this record (set by the Russians in 1984), basically expalining why no one had beat it in 16 years.

If you believe him, it will never be beat, given the type of course required, and the margin errors accepted back then and not now, etc.

It would be good reading for you (or maybe not!)
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Old 05-21-2002, 10:00 PM
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Default fai records

http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/records/
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Old 05-22-2002, 02:28 AM
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Default Re: answers

Originally posted by extra330
props are carbon and come from bruce de chastel , australia, via bruce illingworth....uk pylon champ.

engine........ i have been asked by the manufacturer to say nowt at the moment until or if a record is attained but it is a 40 size ish.
Did you know Bruce lives in the USA now? Has done for ages. Isn't there someone local producing blanks for props?? I can't believe you have to import them!

Is the engine manufacturer local to you?

Which pipe are you running?
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Old 05-22-2002, 08:08 AM
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Default props

check with the control line speed guy's, you might be surprised at what they can offer for under 20 bucks.
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Old 05-22-2002, 08:20 AM
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Default props

i have tried the control line props also with the pylon props i have not got quite enough pitch,
i am having to purchase them as blanks and re working them.

i did originally when first testing this project advertise and contact a few carbon prop manufacturers who told me they would have to make a special plug for what i wanted.

2 came back with prices.....$900 for making the plug and it was never to leave their premises, in other words i saw them as trying to rip me off.
and then $ 35 for every prop made,
i understand the work involved in producing a one off pluut $900
not from me........
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