js3

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Hello Speed Freaks!

I once had a GP Patriot with a piped YS .45, APC 10 X 8 or 9, retracts and two fuel tanks plumbed in series installed over the wing. It was covered in dark blue and and cub yellow Monokote in a Blue Angles type scheme. Sadly, it is long gone. That was a fun airplane! Max speed was 130 to 135 according to speed trap measurement.

I'm considering building another one and using foam wing cores and a different airfoil like perhaps the MH24. Also, this time I think I'd choose a Jett 50 motor for it.

Anyway, my question to you all is this... Has anyone ever tried using the APC racing props on this plane? I'm thinking something like the 8.8 X 9.5, or the 8.8 X 9.75. We use the 8.8 and 8.75 series APC props on Q500 racers and they are better props than the standard Sport prop that APC sells. I would expect more speed with these props. Do you think that the smaller dia prop would be able to handle the Patriot? I have access to a 700 foot concrete runway so a long take-off run is no problem.

Another option would be to scale down the plans somewhat so that you could put a Q500 motor (Jett or Nelson) on it and spin the 8.8 dia propeller. Using a true racing motor for power could be quite interesting!

Dave03B

I've never used the set up you're talking about, but i'm sure others have and will jump in soon. Can you help me?

I have a Patriot with os46fx and weston throttle pipe. i've been running an apc 10x6, and and now want more speed. I don't have access to a tacho, so which apc prop will get me more speed. 9x8 or 9x7? (one or the other)

Thanks for your help
Dave

js3

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Dave,

A tachometer won't really help you much in terms of determining speed. Both the 9 X 8 and the 9 X 7 should produce more static RPM on the ground (where you would be taching it) compared to the 10 X 6. The 9 X 8 might be close but the 9 X 7 should easily rev more than the 10 X 6. The only way to determine which is faster is to try them and see.

That is basically the question I have. Will the Patriot fly on a 9" (or in my case 8.75") dia propeller? I just don't know if the smaller prop would be able to pull enough. Heck, a person could put a Formula 1, Q40 or F3D racing motor on one with a 7.25" prop spinning at 24,500k. That would be tons of revs but I don't think the prop would be able to overcome the airframe drag. Hopefully some others will share their experiences on this thread.

Good luck!

js3

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Nobody willing to tackle this topic?

Dave03B

My Patriot wasn't interested in flying with a 9*8. Wouldn't takeoff.
I'm back on 10*6.

Can i try 10*5

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

Dave....

....mine didn't like the 10-6 APC....no revs....

....try a 9-8 Master airscrew, and see if you like it.

Dave.

Strykaas

Dave,

I would advocate a Graupner Cam Prop 10x8 if ground thrust were an issue.

ewspears

My Feedback: (12)

Patriot should have a 10" prop for good takeoff and vertical performance. I'm going to put my Modded Jett FIRE 90 in mine, with tuned pipe shrouded in Fuse. It turns an uncut APC 10X8 over 18K on the ground.

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

An APC 9x9 was the sweet spot on my Patriot- R.I.P.

Had great takeoff perf. and would do vertical rolls until it was no longer seen

js3

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Razor,

What motor did it have?

Thanks for the input!

Razor-RCU

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Ooops sorry-

Jett-50

Dave03B

Yeah, not an OS46fx.!..................

Q-Ball

My Feedback: (1)

My Jet 50 with a 9X9 worked real well.Took it a little while to get off the ground but once in the air,watch out.
Razor's rite.

Building another..
Walt

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

Razor's was real wild with the 9-9....it went straight up like it was
shot out of a cannon....about 100 miles per/hour, didn't even
slow down....[X(]

SSAN

Hey John,

I'm not a speed freak, but I'm just like you... a Pylon Racing pilot!

The 8.8 series pylon props would not be efficient enough because the patriot is too big and heavy. Although, the APC 9x8.5N would be the perfect one for current patriot model and a Jett .50. The 9X8.5N is a lot wider than the 8.8x8.5 to 9.5 pitch and would give enough thrust to fly the patriot. However, if you want to go smaller prop for faster speed, see below for some tips.

Here's a tip for obtaning top-end speed without much sacrafice in take-off flight...

First of, pick the smallest prop's with highest pitch the engine can pull and run the engine at full power. Then hold the plane with the nose pointing up and slightly let go of the plane (be careful and be ready to cath the plane if it lower/drop :-). If the prop/engine power is enough to pull the plane slightly vertical then your're good, but if the plane drop/lower then you will need a longer diameter prop. All you're looking for is to find the most pitch and diameter the engine can pull the plane slighty vertical so you can get the best top-end speed possible.

In term of airfoil, I think you're on the right track for the MH24 (After all, most of the fast Q40 guys are running the Pole Cat with MH24 on it), especially with down sizing the design. It would make the plane much lighter and less drag, which give more power to weight ratio and allow the engine to unload better with MUCH cleaner airfoil for an overall better performance. Try it and see for yourself!

Hope this help!

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Hi Sam, Good to hear from you again.

My number one identity is Pylon Pilot as well however, I don't mind the moniker "Speed Freak". I think the two go hand in hand.

Thanks for the tips. Once I get it built, I'll give the vertical hold test a try. At this point I think I'm leaning toward building a smaller version and using an old Jett Q500 motor. The motor isn't up to snuff for racing any more but still is better than any sport .40 out there.

So I'm thinking something like the Patriot, scaled down perhaps 15% to 20%, MH 24 airfoil, Spring Air retracts, gear doors, skin hinges, sealed hinge gaps, concealed control linkages fiberglass fuse and the racing motor. I doubt if it'd be as fast as a Magnum but it should go pretty good and be plenty of fun.

John A

Only issue I see with the MH24/scaled down plan is fitting the landing gear. I don't think the wing will be thick enough anywhere for the mechanism. Maybe a set of LG like the U2? You could even put 1/2 A retracts out on the wing tips.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Now THAT would be cool wouldn't it? I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to do some CAD designing and see what I come up with.

Razor-RCU

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Prop. clearance??

MyWay

Tried every prop made and ended up using a apc 10/7 cut down to 9 3/4. Allowed for good takeoff and good speed. The Patriot just has to much drag to go faster than 130mph with a 46 & pipe.

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

Totally depends on the engine in use here...

EW- I thought that also (10" prop.) but when I used the 9x8 then the 9x9 vertical was all good!

MyWay

How about pulling power taking off?

Dave03B

This is the problem i have. I want all out speed from my Patriot, but when I go down to the 9x9 9x8's it's just not interested in jumping into the air

So I'm stuck at an APC 10x6 still.

46FX throttle piped 5%

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

150 feet with NO FLAPS- Remember with a Jett-50 the power is huge!

After a long level pass it would shoot vert. until it is a speck with a 9x9

Now that the Patriot is RIP my Scat-Cat has the jett on board and wow--- lighter plane same engine? Yup-