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  1. #51

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    I'm going to follow-up on livinabox's statement with my thoughts, the standard prop driven Enforcer will work well with seperate elevator/ailerons or elevons. If going with elevons I would use a higher grade servo just to be safe. The pusher(standard engine)arrangement on the Enforcer with the prop running in a slot in the wing gives the Enforcer a somewhat vectored thrust since the control serfaces are in the thrust of the propeller. It makes it very effective.

    However, Once you do the conversion to a pusher ducted fan, you no longer have the engine thrust over the surfaces, plus the engine nacelle shrouds the elevator and reduces the effectiveness of the elevator at low speed (when you need all you can get)

    There are two cures for this. one is to run elevons, this gets the elevator in clear air, second, make the elevator longer and the ailerons shorter with more throw.

  2. #52

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    What sort of prop sizes are you guys using to experiment?

    Just aquired a 90 Super tiger second hand so should be enough power but want some feed back guys!!

  3. #53
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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    I'd start it out with an APC 12x6 or 12x8. Then, when you want to wind it up...prop it down to an 11x9.

    Gary
    >>>>>> Un-Certified Speed \"Demon\"!! <<<<<<
    (((Revver numero three\'\'o)))

  4. #54

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Hell thas a small prop for a 90 but ill take the tip. My funfly panic has a 13x7 with s/t 75 in it.

    How critical is the C of G on these things btw?

  5. #55

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Prop size suggested seemed kinda small to me to. The limiting factor to the Enforce as far a prop size is the slot the prop runs in, in the wing. The other limiting factor is prop choices, Pushers are just not that popular, with the hobby as a whole and the mfg's just don't have as broad a range to choose from.

    The CG on a delta is very critical, a 1/2 to far back and your in for a wild ride. If you do get in the air and the plane is hard to control (aft CG) pull power back as much a possible, it will smooth out usually at a lower speed, get it down and move the CG fwd.
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  6. #56

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    My Enforcer is coming along nicely. Fuselage is 90% complete and wing is about 50% complete. Hopefully it will be ready to fly within two weeks at the most. I'll post some pics when it's ready. I am really impressed so far.

    BTW for those that don't like the canopy, I have not trimmed the front ply decking fully and left an overhang in the cockpit area. This means that I can cut the canopy shorter. It's looks a lot more streamlined.

    Just to expand on my elevon setup. I am planning to use four servos and split the elevator in half. This may sound like overkill but I am using the model as a test bed for my Kangaroo. I want to test the radio programming before I put it on my jet.
    www.ukjetshop.com
    UK Dealer for Bavarian Demon and Emcotec. Reseller of Ashlock connectors,

  7. #57

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Another fab looking delta....or canard in this case.
    I assume its been moded BIG time?
    Im amazed at the width of the prop gap on these things.
    Looks like ill have to get the maths head on for C of G when the final checks come round.
    Whats the favourite way of covering with that gap in the wing because when you cut the film it aint gonna reach right across or even round the other side from what i can see?

  8. #58

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    The plane pictured above is what they call a Cranked Arrow Canard. Nobody makes a kit of it, but the plans are available from RC modeler. The Name is Crusader II.

    It is a 40 size plane which I used a Webra 50 on, retracts, and the canard wing is full articulating, in other word the whole thing moves. The Cranked Arrow term comes for two angle leading edge of the wing.

    The interesting thing is it's a lifting body design, sim to the space shuttle, It likes to land with somewhere around 25 degress nose up.

    siclick33, Which radio are you using?

    Here's my next project, picked it up at a yard sale for $25.00, I believe it's a first generation Byron A-4, should be fun.
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  9. #59

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    I'm using a Futaba ZAP WCII. The problem comes because I was intending to use four independant channels on the RX for the four elevons. This can have issues with trimming and is a little mix hungry.

    I think I may just Y-lead each side as I think there is more chance that I will mess up the programming than there is of losing an RX channel!
    www.ukjetshop.com
    UK Dealer for Bavarian Demon and Emcotec. Reseller of Ashlock connectors,

  10. #60

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    GREAT!!!!!

    You have the right radio for the job, If you go the Y harness route make sure you use the reversing type Y harness with the trimmer pots. It will make your set-up a lot easier.


    Now then, for the Fun Part!!!!!

    If you were to take the time to set up you 4 independant servos on 4 seperate channals, you could test which works the best on this aircraft elevons or individually controlled elevator and ailerions.

    By using two seperate conditions you could set-up elevons in one and seperate controls on the other and with the flip of a switch be in either set-up you want and do it while flying !!!.

    If you end up liking the elevons and have a servo failure while in flight, flip the switch and your in normal and should have no problem controlling it for landing. best of both worlds.

    I fly a 9Z WCII for my plane and a JR 10X for my helicopters. The 10x is easier to setup but just doesn't have the versatility of the 9z

  11. #61

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Iv just had a nasty thought in that should the prop come undone in the plane then it will probably rip a huge chunk from inside the slot and cause quite a bit of damage. Has any one had this happen to them?

  12. #62
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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    ......nope........

    Just make sure you get them on tight!

    Gary
    >>>>>> Un-Certified Speed \"Demon\"!! <<<<<<
    (((Revver numero three\'\'o)))

  13. #63

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    i had a prop come undone on a pattern ship last summer with a Tiger 90 in it..and wow did it howl!
    Anyway im curious as to how you guys manage to get the leading edge on without all the ribs flapping about and also did you find that some things did not line up on the plan. "Do i pull the rib this way or that" as the slots didnt line up, or if i made them line up then the leading edge was out aaaaAAAHHH!!!

    Yep have filed all the angles for the spars ...so no worries there.
    A 2 peice leading edge hmm now theres a new one on me.

    regards to all head bangers.....the build goes on!

  14. #64

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    How messy does the rear end get with smoke going thru the prop and getting chucked around the slot?

  15. #65

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Damm, he found the sore subject

    Yes, you will have oil residue from the engine firewall back. I cured some of this by plugging the end of the muffle and inserting two 3/8" brass tubes inside the muffler running from the joint out the front of the muffler. This pushes the exhaust straight through the prop.. your still going to have oil from the prop slot back.

    If you going to use monokote, ultra-coat or any of the film covering on the plane you want to use at least a 3/8 inch overlap of the covering in the areas of the engine and aft of the prop slot to help prevent oil seepage under the covering. it is also good to seal the covering seams with something, I was told clear finger nail polish works but I mixed up some finishing resin and applied it to the seam with an artist brush.

  16. #66

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Iv gotta ask the question again regarding that slot.
    You say that a 3/8" overlap is needed and also the right stuff
    for sealing the joins to stop spent fuel getting under the whole thing.
    Well im ok on that but as this a tad different from anything iv covered
    im concerned about the joins..surely you must have to use a patch in the
    slot way bigger than the excess that gets cut near the bone and folded over?
    Thas ok but a small patch to do this would mean im worried about it coming off
    even if the nail varnish etc works. Do you blokes use a "Balsa lock" to make sure
    its ok?...or even spray the slot with fuel proofer to make sure the Monokote or
    whatever is stuck real well?

    I hate a model thats tatty after a month or so ....really hacks me off!!

  17. #67

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    I've probably covered 50 + airplanes since I've been in the hobby and I've gotten pretty good at it. That said it's pretty hard to explain just using words without writing a book.

    I have tried balsa-Rite and a few other film covering pre-treating agents and never found any that were worth the price of the can they were put in, all were pretty much *****.


    Ok, to covering, the first step to cover a wing like the enforcer is to sand to at least 320, vacuum the surface with round brush attachment. The brush will help get the dust out of all the crack and crevasses. I then wipe it down with a rag and alcohol. You’ll notice there's still a lot of dust on it even after you vacuum. This is probably the most important part of cover. The covering will not stick to dust, the surface needs to be dust free..

    I cover my work surface with 1" foam rubber, this is to keep from damaging the surface while I'm working on it.

    When you start covering, do all the small areas first, (patchwork as you call it) the insides verticals of the prop slot, corners. Anything the large sheet isn't going to conform to. Most of this will be done with a small trim iron. You also want to work from back to front this is to all the seams are facing back. You want the prop wash to flow over the seam. If the seam is facing fwd the wash is going to try and lift it.

    OK, you now have all the patchwork done, and it's time to do the overall covering. The first question is are you going to be able to cover the entire side of the wing in one sheet, if so great, If not, your going to have to figure out where you want the seems and how there going to blend with your covering design. On a normal wing the seams are in the center and covered by the fuselage. But on the enforcer we want to keep as many of the seams as possible out of the prop wash area, this will keep seams from lifting a fuel from migrating under it. If you have to do it in sections do one section down the middle going from vertical fin to vertical fin.

    I am in the process of building a ducted fan version of the enforcer and May do a full write up with pictures as I go.
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  18. #68

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Thats an excellent reply and quite lengthy ...where the hell do i get rubbing alcohol i wonder?
    I may do a mixer of cover n paint to make life easier but those fins aaaaahhhh!!! . I havent got that far in the building yet but im sure that if i can cover them and then glue in place itll be a breeze.
    There is another issue id like to mention in that the control snakes recommended in the instructions
    are a make we dont see over in the Uk but another famous one is the "sulivan" type of which are easy to obtain, but are they up to scratch as in no slop etc. I only ever use snakes for throttle as they are so handy for getting round fuel tanks.

    Oh what sort of speed are these things btw?...is a Lazer arrow quicker?

  19. #69

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Back again

    First off, NO rubbing alcohol, use denatured alcohol available in most hardware stores. I guess they have those in the british islands .

    To the fins, yes cover them off the plane. Insert the un-covered fin in the wing, with a pencil and light pressure mark the fin were it meet the wing (both sides). Remove the fin from the plane and mark a line 1/16" to the inside of the wing on the fin. This is were you want the covering to stop.

    Many people will cover the entire fin first and then mark the line and cut the covering with a razor and remove the waste. The problem with this is it that it is near impossible not to cut some of the balsa while cutting the covering and that cut is at the point were the highest stress is put on the fin. you can guess what can happen.[>:]

    Now to the control push rods. If I remember correctly Ny-Rod is a trade mark name for one of the Sulivan nyrod products. The trick to ny-rods are to anchor the outer cover, it need to be anchored ever 3". any movement of the out tube will translate to slop in the control serface. Like you about all I'd ever use them for is throttle control.

    That being said, I haven't used a ny-rod in years for control surfaces, I just don't care for them. I put one servo in the skin of each wing straight forward of the control serface control arm and run elevons. A little less weight and no slop.

    A lot of people are scarred of elevons. They say if you loose one servo you have no control but if you loose one servo with one on the elevator and one on the ailerons you still pretty much hosed.

    The biggest trick here is good equipment, and old standard servo that has been in 5 airplanes and that you've had since you got started in the hobby probably wouldn't be your best choice for a servo. Best control of course would be a digital servo but any duel bearing coreless with 60+ oz should work fine.

  20. #70
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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    OK...before you look at these pictures, please keep in mind I'm not one of the greatest fabricators [sm=rolleyes.gif].

    This is my Enforcer - modified with a Dynamax fan and an OS 91 DF. I see now why so many people use the Byron fan with these planes....the Dynamax puts the motor further back on the plane. It took quite a bit of weight in the nose to balance...which makes the plane a little heavy.

    The conversion from prop engine to DF would have been easier to do during the building stage. My conversion was quick, ugly, and easily converted back to propeller power if I so decide. The header tank is a little on the big side, but the 2 ounce tank I had before had a mishap with the rotating fan...It's a learning experience [sm=rolleyes.gif]

    Flight performance is much the same as it was with the Tower 75 and pusher prop the plane flew with before...lands a little hotter, I'm sure because of the added weight needed to achieve correct balance.

    The best part of all this...I have virtually no money in this plane. The motor and fan were left over from an old YA A-4 experiment (which was originally picked up in a trade for an old laptop I didn't use), and the plane was given to me by a gentleman in trade for some building time. Only thing I did before flying was to upgrade the standard servos to Hitec 625 MG's, and install a receiver. Servos are sitting in the wing near the surfaces to eliminate the nyrods. The ailerons and now functioning as elevons...and it will have working rudders as soon as I get the time. The throttle servo will be moved to inside the wing...as I said, quick and ugly. If I get really motivated, I have a set of Rhom-air retracts that would clean things up in the air.

    The fuselage contains 2 tanks (16 ounce and 14 ounce) since the narrow shape prohibits a normal sized tank from being installed.

    Now if I can find a reasonably priced turbine to put on here...

    Mark
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  21. #71

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    What in hells name is that gold n silver covering.....do ya wear heavy shades when flying it.

    Oh i do like it though ....as my "Twinjet" multiplex has the same set up (kind of) on the fins
    and i thought i was being loud.

    BTW....off topic but i get an answer around the same time each morning and its just gone
    07:30 here in the UK ..and am working nights. If my math is right ya should be 5-6 hours
    behind me and writing in the 03 ish hours of the morning.

  22. #72
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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Actually it's only about 12:30am here...I live in the Mountian Time zone USA.

    The covering job was not my idea...the plane was already assembled when I got it. If I have the plane long enough, it will be recovered...that silver disappears in the air...not a good thing on a fast plane

    Mark

  23. #73

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    Oh hell i was counting on the silver to be a good thing to see against trees.

    Ok back to the drawing board.....lemmi see now ..pink ..yellow ..orange....erm erm

  24. #74

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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    First time I've seen a tractor fan on an Enforce, most are pushers. Go a few post up and there are three pictures of a nacelle (Fan Housing) for the enforcer I'm building. this is for a pusher fan arrangement.

    Your extra nose weight came more than likly from the pipe and support, that a looooong moment arm hanging out the back, and the further the weight is from the CofG the more weight it is going to take to balance it.

    the ideal placement when doing a regular enging to DF conversion like this is for the engine to basically end up in the same place, I would say your engine fan assembly could come quite a bit forward. but hell, if it works fly it

  25. #75
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    RE: Balsa USA enforcer

    I thought about moving it forward, but I worried abnout having the thrust line somewhere else on the plane. The fan is in the same location as the prop that it replaced. Did not know if that made a difference...

    Knowing what I know now, I would have looked around for a Byron fan unit...but I already had this, and made it work.

    These things sure are noisy!!! I like it!!

    Mark


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