Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

WEBRA 50GT

Reply

Old 08-09-2004, 01:43 PM
  #1  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default WEBRA 50GT

I've got an old WEBRA 50 that has only seen use as a pattern plane hauler. Does anyone here have any direct experience with setting one of these engines up for a speed application? Internally it looks to be built as well as any engine in it's price range. If any of you guys have info about timing specs, prop selection, etc, that would be greatly appreciated. If I can get this thing to turn an 8-10 prop 15-16000, then the work that it takes to do it will be well worth it.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2004, 02:12 PM
  #2  
der_steuermann
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
der_steuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stolberg, GERMANY
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Hi combatpigg,

I believe that should be no problem. Copying the timing specs of the West .50 V1 engine should work out. Unfortunately I don't have any side exhaust speed engines. But I am sure one of the Magnum/West .50 combo owners will chime in here to supply the wanted data...
der_steuermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2004, 02:22 PM
  #3  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

HI DER STEUERMANN! Thanks for the reply. I am hoping one of the WEST 50 guys has that info, it will reveal which way to go when compared to the stock timing of the GT. I don't know how much the WEST 50 sells for, but if a guy can spend a little bit of time with a $130 WEBRA 50, and get 150 mph[or more] out of it, then this seems like a good way to get a cheap thrill!
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2004, 05:03 AM
  #4  
der_steuermann
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
der_steuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stolberg, GERMANY
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

If no one of the West .50 V1 guys wants to measure the timings I would suggest to ship that West engine to combatpigg. He could then obtain the numbers and send it back immediately...




der_steuermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2004, 05:24 AM
  #5  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Well, that would be above and beyond the call of duty [to send me an engine]! This could work out to be a fun project, first to get a baseline with the stock muffler, next with the MACs' pipe and finally with the high rpm timing mods. I would even go so far as to make a custom venturi to replace the carb.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2004, 06:28 AM
  #6  
der_steuermann
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
der_steuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stolberg, GERMANY
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Hi,

for your final stage I recommend these specs:

Exhaust: 175 degrees
Boost: 122
Transfer: 126
Intake: 32 ABDC open / 61 ATDC close
Pipe length (from glow plug to weld or mid of biggest pipe part): 11.5“
Pipe: e.g. MACS un-muffled #1150
Header: swan neck
Venturi carb ID: 10.5 mm

The timings are still on the conservative side supporting longevity of the conrod/wristpin.

The 8*10 APC prop will only work in combination with a very slim fuse. The ‘Magnum’ fuselage for instance already is too fat. Same applies to DD, whip etc. airframes...
der_steuermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2004, 09:59 AM
  #7  
MyWay
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Benicia, CA
Posts: 453
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

I've got an old WEBRA 50 that has only seen use as a pattern plane hauler. Does anyone here have any direct experience with setting one of these engines up for a speed application? Internally it looks to be built as well as any engine in it's price range. If any of you guys have info about timing specs, prop selection, etc, that would be greatly appreciated. If I can get this thing to turn an 8-10 prop 15-16000, then the work that it takes to do it will be well worth it.
You are underestimating the power the the stock out of the box webra 50 has. With a good tuned pipe 16000+ is not a problem using a 8/10 prop. The stock timing will support rpms up to 19000 rpm but the carb should be opened up another .020". Note. an apc 8/10 will throw a blade at any time so be aware.
MyWay is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2004, 02:02 PM
  #8  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Thanks DER STEUERMANN and MYWAY for your informative replies. I am surprised to hear that the stock WEBRA will rev up so well with an 8-10. First thing I should do is treat this old engine to a set of new bearings. I have an old PREDATOR to use for this project, once I get the engine tuned up pretty good, then the plan is to slip it into a more sophisticated plane.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2004, 02:07 AM
  #9  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

After tearing apart this old war horse, the only thing wrong with it is the piston ring/liner wear. The bearings are still perfect and the con rod hasn't stretched or worn at all. I got onto WEBRAs' website and got an exploded view of the parts that I want to order, stock numbers included. So far I have tried to contact them via e-mail with no luck, I guess the next avenue of approach is to telephone[sprechen ze duetsche?] If anyone out there has a simpler approach to getting parts, please let me know. Even though they make great engines, if the product support system is lacking, it will make guys like me think twice before going their way again. I remember replacing the rod years ago through the LHS, and it was like pulling teeth to get that done.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2004, 03:00 AM
  #10  
der_steuermann
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
der_steuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stolberg, GERMANY
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Hi combatpigg,

I could call them here in Germany, no prob. If it's just the piston ring, it won't be expensive. But if you're in need for a complete new piston/sleeve assembly I personally would look at fleebay for a little used Webra .50 engine (also the heli engines)...

Let me know what do do.

DS
der_steuermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2004, 12:11 PM
  #11  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Hi DER STEUERMANN, thanks for the offer to help me. I would actually want to run the ABN setup vs the ringed version, if given a choice. I don't like the idea of a ring fluttering around at high rpm. If a new P/L set costs more than 50% of a new engine, then I guess it isn't worth it. The part number for the ABN piston/liner set is 1025/34G, and wrist pin keepers are 1034/7A, this is choice #1 for parts. Choice #2 is the ringed P/L set, 1025/34. Choice #3 is the ring by itself, 1025/4A. If the P/L sets are more than $75 then it isn't worth it to me because like you say it is easy enough to pick up a good used one. Thanks again for your offer to help!
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2004, 12:40 PM
  #12  
der_steuermann
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
der_steuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stolberg, GERMANY
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

OK, will contact Webra Germany tomorrow...
der_steuermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2004, 10:30 PM
  #13  
MustangAce
My Feedback: (3)
 
MustangAce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Old Hickory, TN
Posts: 1,027
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

My brand new 50GT just recorded 15,000rpm on the ground with an APC 9/8!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Nk27819.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	23.3 KB
ID:	165026   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fd92703.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	24.5 KB
ID:	165027  
MustangAce is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2004, 04:37 AM
  #14  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

That's a handsome plane! Hope you get as many[hundreds] of high power runs out of your 50 as I did. On a power / weight / dollar ratio, WEBRA is tough to beat. The price of that engine has pretty much been the same for the last 15 years.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2004, 10:30 AM
  #15  
MyWay
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Benicia, CA
Posts: 453
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Just in, 10 year old webra 50 with apc 9/10 prop 13200rpm with open exhaust. Adding 60 size mac pipe pumped rpm to 15000rpm. Try running your engine in its present condition and you will be surprised. Fuel was 15%.
MyWay is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2004, 12:33 PM
  #16  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

MY WAY, That's about what I expected to hear for rpm #s, thanks for filling me in.

DER STEUERMANN was kind enough to contact WEBRA for me and got prices for the parts that I need. $66.90 for a ABN P/L set, and $2.60 for a package of pin keepers, the shipping is $15. I owe you a beer or two, buddy, care for some OLD MILWAUKEE[:'(]? A new 50 is $119 [euro] plus S/H, I assume that roughly equals $150 of our $$ delivered to the door.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2004, 12:36 PM
  #17  
MyWay
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Benicia, CA
Posts: 453
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Webra 50 at horizon hobbies 129$ with muffler.
MyWay is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2004, 12:49 PM
  #18  
der_steuermann
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
der_steuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stolberg, GERMANY
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Yes, the current EUR/US$ exchange rate is for you US guys.

combatpigg, just send me your worst beer

der_steuermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2004, 12:50 PM
  #19  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Thanks for the current price from HORIZON. I think WEBRA sets their direct to the public price high so they don't piss off the distributors and LHS. This also keeps them from having to fill little nickel and dime orders like mine. For $130, there sure is a lot of fine work that goes into these 50s.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2004, 01:31 PM
  #20  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

The little barfing guy, and the drinking guy are both great! There are soo many bad AMERICAN brews to choose from[INDUSTRIAL SWILL], picking the worst one could end up being a huge job. On the other side of the coin, the so called micro brews lean towards bitterness[:'(] with too much hopps. When I lived in BOBLINGEN for a couple of years [GI] our favorite "everyday" beer was STUTTGART HAUFBRAU! The favorite special occassion brew was ANDECHS STOUT, I think it had raspberry in it. The original GERMAN brewers who settled in WISCONSIN would be tork rollin in their graves if they could taste their beer now. STROHS, PABST, BUSCH, MILLER, etc. are drinkable, but life is too short to drink cheap beer!
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2004, 03:22 PM
  #21  
der_steuermann
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
der_steuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stolberg, GERMANY
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

picking the worst one could end up being a huge job.
HeHe , so we'll set you a target of two months (until the Oktober Fest)
der_steuermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2004, 04:59 AM
  #22  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

All I had in the frig tonight was 3 MILLER GENUINE DRAFTS that were pushed to the very back. This is about the same as finding an LA.40 under the XMAS tree!
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2004, 02:18 AM
  #23  
proptop
My Feedback: (8)
 
proptop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rome, NY
Posts: 7,022
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Hey guys, hope you don't mind me buttin' in here for a minute...
I've got 2 .50 GT's and both of 'em have noisy bearings. The first one started getting noisy after the 1st tank, and the 2nd one is starting to get that way too after 6 flights! Both have been well taken care of, with an appropriate mixture setting for new ABN engines (slightly rich 2 cycling, a few hundred rpm short of peak) so they haven't been run too lean/hot.
My question is, are they (Webra) using cheap bearings, or did I get a couple from a bad batch or something? I flew a gallon thru the 1st one until I couldn't stand the noise any more (thought it was gonna let go on me) and swapped the 2nd one in (my WM Dago Red) but it's making bearing noises already after only 6 tanks!
What do ya think? Ever had or heard of a similar situation? Thanks, Tom.
P.S. How's your speed plane project going Helge?
proptop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2004, 03:19 AM
  #24  
der_steuermann
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
der_steuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stolberg, GERMANY
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Hi Tom,

well, during the last two weeks I have been working on fine-tuning several of the CF props. [8D]

Regarding the Webra bearings, I hope some Webra .50 owners will chime in here. I've had good luck with my .32s so far. The .32 already came with the good high performance C3 bearings featuring plastic retainers...
der_steuermann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2004, 04:16 AM
  #25  
combatpigg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: WEBRA 50GT

Bearing quality is something that the MFG doesn't have absolute control of from batch to batch. The final cleaning of the engine before running can sometimes be lacking. Some guys will soak a new engine in a sonic cleaner. You can tape a jar full of solvent to an orbital sander and leave it running to microscopicly clean parts. As far as I am concerned the ultimate high speed bearing is to make your own "full compliment" type with new balls from the bearing supply house. This style bearing has less friction, more load bearing capacity, and no retainer to scatter. Using heavy props and heavy hubs will stress the bearings, also if the interference fit in the case is too tight the bearing will suffer. More ways to go wrong than there is to go right!
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service