Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Challenged Speed Freak

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Old 08-28-2004, 11:00 PM
  #1  
dean320
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Default Challenged Speed Freak

I am having the worst luck with speed planes. The first one was a GP Viper. First flight, engine died, ran out of speed and crashed. Repairs would have been more that I wanted to put into the plane. Next was a Whiplash. First flight, great launch, got some altitude, turned left to come across the field, seemed to fall out of the sky in a knife edge position, totalled. Today, Magnum, same exact story as the Whiplash but with a right turn. What am I doing wrong? I am not sure my skills are totally to blame as I have been flying for about 4 years and do pretty well with 3D. I also have a Q500 with a GMS 47 and although the speed is nothing impressive, what there is, I do not have a problem with. It seems to be delta type planes do not agree with me (even thought the Magnum is not really a delta, it seemed to handle somewhat similar to the Whiplash). What should I do? I have pretty much given up on deltas and since I do not seem to have problems with regular planes, would like to find something I can get some impressive speed out of. Any thoughts on planes? Any thoughts on what I did wrong to total both the Whiplash and the Magnum? Someone.....PLEASE HELP!!!!
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Old 08-29-2004, 03:08 AM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

If you are having crashes that are unexplained, hopefully you aren't reusing ANY of the on board equipment or the transmitter. If you have a well set up DIAMOND DUST, the wing loading is low enough to make all aspects of the flight a piece of cake, so don't give up on ALL deltas. Some speed planes with extremely high wing loadings can fall out of the sky if you aren't a good judge of air speed. Flying a 3D plane allows you to do ridiculous things all the time with a stalled plane and get away with it! Flying a 3D plane can spoil a pilot, I shift back and forth between the two types of flying. I don't have any experience with flying overly wing loaded planes, but a good percent of the take off and or landing crashes that I have seen were due to having too much weight, not enough wing and not enough air speed. The best solution I think is for you to get all new radio gear, a DIAMOND DUST, and an OS or WEBRA .32. This will get you 130 MPH, and great low speed handling.
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Old 08-29-2004, 09:52 AM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

What are you doing wrong? MAybe nothing. Sometimes stuff happens. I had a similar experience recently. I retired a DD becuase I kept dmaging it on launch. I bought a Dominator Q500 and had nothing but trouble. I finally totaled it when the rx failed.

Anyway, Deltas do fly a bit different. But if you can handle a q-500 then your piloting skills are ok. But they do fly differently. My Diamond Dust would lose altitude during a turn. And the DD was just about the only planeI'd flown for a year of so. When I switchd to a Q500, at first, I cold not make a flat turn. The plane would seem to climb on the turns all by it self. Or so it seemed. I was actually adding a touch of up on every turn. But I did n ot know it. It was pure reflex.

The thing is, u have had trouble with three very differnt types of planes. On the next one, maybe try getting someone else to do a pre-flight. And try using a new rx, if you have not already. But do *something* different on the next one.

If you are mainly a 3d flyer then it may help to have aomeone next to you when on the maiden flight.

HHHmmmm. I just remembered. I'd used the exact same words as you a few years back. I'd lost several speed 400 pylon planes. They just "fell out of the sky". I gave up on small fast planes for a while. In my case, I realize now that I just was not flying them fast enough. I tried to fly them the same way I'd flown my lightly loaded aerobatic planes.

Try a Diamond Dust. It's fairly cheap. A quick build and has a low wing loading.
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Old 08-29-2004, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

You might want to look into The Bill Evans line of flying wings. The Simitar duce is a hot 3.5 cc aircraft with a pipe. He has the same platform from .049 up to quadra engines. His Leading edge, is a classy looking wing, twin rudders, with a .45 and pipe it screems! He has a delta design, the Pole Star X, .45 to .60, and then Pole Star X EPO, 45..60. (EPO is for experenced pilots only)

My Pard, Revver #71 is planning to test his EPO in a couple of hours. 34 inch wingspan I think, with a YS .45 on a Pipe.

You can build all of the Evans designs with Landing gear, but a Speed Freak would of course leave these off for pure speed.

You can still find plans, and Bill will probally still cut cores if you need them. He is a great Gent, and is willing to help.

All his designs have washout built into the wings, so they do not tip stall. A big help when you are trying to land a bullet.

Hope this helps.

WH
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Old 08-29-2004, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

BUBBAAAAAAAAAAAAA, that Leading edge, it has twin verticle stabs on the tail like an F-14, i dont know if its an option for rudders on that or not, i didnt have rudders on the Leading Edge that i had, ive got the prints somewhere i think, or maybe Kevin has them. Going to try and fly the Polestar X EPO in a couple of hours....thats IF i get it ready, and IF i find a launcher for it....i cant hand launch it setting in the wheelchair LOL......HMMM, maybe just let it take off verticle.....i know the Leading Edge would have, never got the nerve to try it though.....i weighed the Polestar....it is a WHOPPING 5.3 pounds ! NOW, with that long nose if i can get it all to balance, this is gonna be fun !
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Old 08-29-2004, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

What kind of speed could I expect by putting a 60 or so sized Jett on my Q500?
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Old 08-29-2004, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

the whiplash and magnum won't hold knife edge since they do not have rudders, so if you get to that position you need speed and elevator to complete the turn or roll out some and then add elevator to turn. The Whiplash like most delta wings tend to tuck in and drop the nose on tight turns.
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Old 08-29-2004, 02:40 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

This Laser Arrow has ailerons and elevator on 3 servos no mixing required
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

I have seen first hand the glide ratio of a magnum after the engine quits-it has none. This guy came across the field at lest 130mph. This thing was screaming and he ran out of fuel. Altitude was okay and you average plane could have swung around and landed. Not this thing, it fell like a brick. Didn't even come close.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

If its your first Q500, try a simple TT46 pro. You throw a 9/7 prop on it and you have yourself a easy 100mph plane. Don't get me wrong here as I am not cheap. I own propjets and fly the Jett and nelsons but if you want to get the feel of it without buying a $300 engine, try this route. Shoot I have a Shrike with a 46pro turning 17000rpm and 120 mph. Not to shabby for a $70engine and ultrathrust muffler.


ORIGINAL: dean320

What kind of speed could I expect by putting a 60 or so sized Jett on my Q500?
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Old 08-29-2004, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

Cyclic Hardover - I have a GMS 47 in the plane now with a 9X7 and am getting RPMs in the high 13's on the ground. This thing does not seem fast at all, that is why I was thinking of the Jett. What types fo speeds would I get with a Jett 50? I am guessing that engine could turn a 9x9 close to 18,000.
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Old 08-30-2004, 11:23 AM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

Dean,

The GMS you have is not that bad of an engine. Put a 9x6 on it and try it that way. Let it unload a bit. I have seen those turn 9x6 props well over 15K rpm.

The Jett 50 will turn up over 17K rpm using a standard APC 9x8 or 9x9. (you will not see it turn a standard 9x9 at 18K) You would not be disappinted with the speed.

For all-out Q-500 "sport flying" the SJ-50 is available with the SS muffler, tuned to run up in the 19K rpm range, utilizing the APC D series pylon props (8.75x9W, 8.8x8.5, 8.8x9.25). This is actually a pretty popular combination lately, but is only useful on aircraft that can actually fly at much higher speeds. For a Patriot or such, the regular muffler and lower RPM band is more appropriate.

Speed with that q-500 set up is compairable to a full blown AMA 428 racing setup, just a bit more user-friendly. (140 mph plus)

However, as othere have noted, if you are looking for some intermediate speed to gather some flight experience, you may want to try something along the lines of a Thunder Tiger .40 or .46 pro. Utilize a common APC 9x6, and the stock muffler. This combination easily exceeds 110 mph, and is the same as used for many regional 424 Q-500 racing events. Break it in properly (as a racing engine) and don't abuse it, and you will have pleanty of speed. The TT-40 and 9x6 will easily turn over 16K rpm. A TT46 will do even better. If you want some more speed from the same engine, install a jett-stream or ultra-thrust muffler, and the engine will respond quite nicely These engines are actually very well made products, and a good value.

Bob
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Old 11-10-2004, 07:46 PM
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Check my gallery
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Old 11-10-2004, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

Well good info. above---

My first Whip was destroyed on the 1st flight, it did a slow roll into mother earth about 40 seconds into the flight- I dunno what happened but I tested the gear and reused it in 2nd WHip with no problems-

What servos did you have on the elevons? I used Hitec-645MG's (107 oz @ 4.8V- 133 @ 6V) and I use 6V unreg. pack-

Being a 3D'er myself-- I have to remember to use minimal throws compared to a 3D ship- Were you set at the MFG. recomm. throws?

I want to try a DD but I love my Whiplash
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Old 10-11-2005, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

Hi There,

You had posted about the Bill Evans Pole Star planes and I was wondering if you know if kits are still available anywhere...

thanks,

Steve Sager

Raleigh, NC

steveo64@earthlink.net
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Old 10-19-2005, 01:11 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

Dean,

I fly a magnum with an OS 46 ax with an 8.5cc pipe and APC 9X9. Assuming you are not suffering from re-occuring electrical problem, here is my suggestions on flying birds like the magnum. keep the speeds up and make very large sweeping turns. I MEAN HUGE. These planes will quickly snap/stall with too much elevator. In no cases should you ever be giving full up elevator unless you are on the last stage of a landing flare. Once the airframe is up to speed and the prop unloaded my magnum will cruise around all day long at 1/4 throttle at about 75 mph. Just be very easy on the elevator through the turns, it wont take much back stick at all to turn it. It sounds to me like you are simply using too much elevator with not enough airspeed. That being said the Magnum is probably one of my favorite RC planes of all time. I have been doing this close to 30 years now. My Giant you-can do is pretty awesome with a Moki 2.1 though.

Here is a video I made of the magnum.
http://www.rob.com/matt/rc/rc_video/magnum.wmv
16 mb file.
Matt

http://www.rob.com/pix/matt
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Old 10-22-2005, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: Challenged Speed Freak

I had a scat-cat with a mvvs 46 with tuned pipe. I was useing a 9-12 speed prop.The engine would turn 13500 rpm on the ground. The whole plane weight was 3.5 lb with no fuel. I let a guy at our local field fly it right in the ground. '' he was supost to be the speed freek guru at our field. I brought this plane to put him in his place'' ha ha..... I made a few speed laps around the field. When I landed to refuel we were talking and I told him that I was here to put him in his place....ha ha I offered to let him take it up. ''wrong thing to do when you are about to race the same guy for fastest plane at the field contest'' He made 2 laps and put it strate down in the ground at full speed. Lessen Learned. My Question can anyone tell me the approximet speed this plane would have? All I know is that it was bad fast.
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