Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

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Old 09-28-2004, 10:41 AM
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picard1
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Default PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS ON MY FIRST PATRIOT. FIRST, I AM INSTALLING SPRING AIR RETRACTS AND I AM NOT SURE WHERE THE BEST PLACE IS TO INSTALL THE AIR TANK/ SECOND, DOES THE VALVE NEED A RETRACT SERVO OR WILL A STANDARD ONE WORK? AND FINALLY, THE PLANS CALL FOR AN 8OZ FUEL TANK SINCE I WILL BE RUNNING A JETT 50 I WANTED TO GO TO A LARGER TANK . WHAT OPTIONS DO I HAVE?

THANKS
MIKE
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Old 09-28-2004, 11:32 AM
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bob27s
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

Mike.......

I had my retract tank in the wing saddle area toward the rear of the wing. GOOP glued it in place. Behind the wing up in the top section of the fuselage would probably be a great place of the kit built version. Its not something you have to service or get to... so you can somewhat build it into the airplane.

The retract valve needs only a regular servo. Preferably a mini servo (HS85 or similar) to save some weight and space.

I have not personally had an opportunity to try this installation, but I would suggest using the Bubble-Jett 8oz fuel tank (long version). I believe it will fit ok. You will avoid any possible fuel foam issues, and you can run the tank down to the very last drop of fuel without any worries of going lean or blowing a plug (making it work effectively like a 10oz tank).

My old ARF version used the stock tank, with the SJ-50 up front. Rarely any issues, flight times safely up to 5 or 6 minutes.

Razor can probably back up the flight times. I think the ARF tank was a bit under 8 oz (some metric size).

Any questions, feel free to ask.

Bob
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Old 09-28-2004, 03:27 PM
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Razor-RCU
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

My last Patriot (Kit built w/Jett-50) had the 8 oz. but also has a 2 oz. hopper tank, I always set my timer at 7 or 8 min. (2yr old childs memory)and did not have any trouble- plenty for a nice flight!

I put my air tank in the bay between the servos and wing saddle, and also gooped it in and used a std servo to actuate the air switch, (Mini would be a great idea, as it gets tight back there)

FYI- Bob IS the man on this stuff but heres what I ran:

9x9 apc
K&B 1L
15% Powermaster fuel
Standard servos all around (148's and 3003's) on 6V [X(]

Awesome performance even though mine had split flaps and was kinda heavy-
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Old 09-28-2004, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

8oz's? YOu guys sure about that. I mean i t may be recommended but your going to use half of that dialing it in for each flight. You ought to find a way to stuff a 12 in it. 8oz tank with a Jett 50 is not going to yield you much flying time. Seriously. I set my timers for 5 minutes
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Old 09-28-2004, 06:03 PM
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Razor-RCU
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

Yup- My header tank is probably why I got 7+ minutes.... I also do NOT fly wide open all the time, probably about 60% of the flight...
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:08 PM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

I put a Dubro 12 oz tank in mine, fits perfect in the wing saddle area just below the cockpit. With the YS45 it has no problems drawing fuel, not sure about engines running muffler pressure. Get 7 minutes at full throttle.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

That was one of the issues with the ARF..... not a lot of tank space. Wish I had a bubble tank for it back then. But I still got a serious 5-6 minutes of flight time. I will have to take a look at my buddies Patriot later, and see what sorta room is in there for a tank.

If you have room, of course, install the largest tank you can fit... just make sure its properly padded.

On the 428 Q-500, screaming from start-up, the 6 oz bubble-jett tank is good for 90 seconds on the ground, 90 seconds on the course, and about 1 minute for shutdown. My airshow q-500 demo flights last about 4-5 minutes.

The bubble jett tank will provide fuel right to the last drop, and the engine burns just a tad over 1 oz per minute at full power. Plus the way the tank is designed, you can also locate it a bit further from the engine than a normal tank, and still get positive fuel flow. The 8oz tank is 2" in diameter, and it can be squished a bit if needed. The 12 oz tank is about 2.5 dia.... and I dont think that is going to fit.

I have the 8oz bubble tank in my Edge 540 with the BSE-76L up front. Its very good on fuel, and rarely flown above 1/2 throttle....that combination is good for well over 10 minutes without any fear of going lean.
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Old 09-29-2004, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

You can put the heat-gun on the tank and "make" it fit also--- [X(]
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

THANKS FOR ALL THE IDEAS GUYS!!!!
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Old 03-03-2005, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

Hi All,
I'm in the process of building the Patriot XL and will put an OS-91FX on it. Does anyone exprience the vibrations and know how to damp it out? I had this problem on my Chipmunk when used an OS-91FX instead of a 61FX. Some did suggest to use a metal engine mount. Since it's expensive and I don't want to buy it w/o knowing for sure. Any comments are welcomed.

Thanks!

Phi
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:06 AM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

Although the 91FX has been known in the past for assorted issues, one of them was not vibration. It tends to run fairly smooth. Double check to ensure your prop is balanced.

The engine mounts that come with the XL are fairly beefy.

Replacing the mount would not be all that expensive. Hunt around some of the hobby shops - see if you can come up with a set of old Sig aluminum beam mounts if you want to go that route. A couple of companies make aluminum versions of the "world models" type mounts too.

If you want to go to the extreme, you can install a set of dubro, dave brown vibration mounts, or go full blown and install a Hyde mount.
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Old 03-03-2005, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

Hi Bob,
Thanks for your comments! Yes. I did try a well balanced wood-prop before on my Chipmunk and the vibration still existed. The last thing I haven't tried is the aluminium engine mount as you've just suggested. I will give it a shot later. In your message, you mentioned one of the 91FX engines would not have vibration problem. What do you mean by that? Is there another type of 91FX that I am not awared of? Please clarify it. Thanks again!

Phi
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Old 03-04-2005, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

The original 91fx had some issues with the fuel system, primarily the remote needle assembly. Gave it a bad rep for a while for inconsistant operation. The current version has a different needle assembly. For the most part, it resolved those issues... engine still has a hit/miss rep with a number of modelers. The one I tested ran fine. Other experienced folks had assorted problems. As far as I know, vibration has not been an issue in general.... but under the right conditions/rpm/load any engine can/will hit a bad harmoninc and shake.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:59 PM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

Hi Bob,
From what you said, I don't know until I try all the combinations ( rpm, prop-size, fuel,...) to find out whether my engine is within a bad catagory. Well, I will surely give it a shot once the Patriot is done. In another subject, is it necessary to use a high torque servo instead of the standard one? the specification calls for standard servos, but the picture on the box shows 4 high-torque units. I am a bit confused here? Do you know anyone has flown this Patriot with standard servos?

Phi
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Old 03-04-2005, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

No idea on the servos others are using for the most part.

The controls are not oversized, plane is not much bigger than most older pattern ships. Decent servos would work.

The one I saw built locally has Hitec 422 bb servos. Those should be pleanty. Plane has not flown yet.

The stock engine mount in the kit should be fine. The plane was basically designed for the 91FX.
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Old 03-05-2005, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: PATRIOT BUILD QUESTIONS?

If in doubt you could always use standard servos at 6-volt. faster and more torque.

mike
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