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Balsa USA Force-One Question

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Old 10-01-2004, 08:06 AM
  #1  
brownknows
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Default Balsa USA Force-One Question

So my Balsa USA F1 is almost ready for maiden flight. I am a little concerned about the default setup of having the aileron servo steer the nosewheel. Does anyone have any comments on how well this works out?

Also, are there any benefits to having dual aileron servos in this plane?

thanks! I'll post a picture as soon as I get the canopy on.
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Old 10-01-2004, 09:38 AM
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Crazy4Flight
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

IT MAY BE TOO LATE BUT I WOULD ADD A SERVO RUDDER CHANNEL FOR NOSE GEAR STEERING
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:43 PM
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AirGar
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

ORIGINAL: Crazy4Flight

IT MAY BE TOO LATE BUT I WOULD ADD A SERVO RUDDER CHANNEL FOR NOSE GEAR STEERING
DITTO....hook it "separately" to your "rudder" channel. I hooked mine up to a mini for steering only.

Gary
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Old 10-02-2004, 06:55 PM
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brownknows
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

Took everyone's advice and converted one of the two aileron servos into a nosegear servo on the rudder channel.

OK! Maiden Flight Report!

Flew it 4 times today. The first flight was very touchy, I think I was too tail-heavy. Lateral trim was perfect, but it wanted to climb. Added 1.5 oz of lead in the nose and it was much better on the last three flights. The fuel flow is going to be tricky on this, as the tank faces backward, and as the fuel level gets low the plane attitude affects the fuel mixture too much. I'd love to hear some suggestions on this.

Also, I really think this plane would benefit from a 10x7 prop or a 10x6 3-blade (I am running a 10x6 2-blade on it now and the OS .46AX seems like it could push more pitch).

Landings were really slow and stable. Rolls were fairly axial, although would benefit from a rudder.


Anyway, I like it a lot. Picture attached.

Dave Brown (not that one!)
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Old 10-03-2004, 01:16 AM
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CARS II
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

Hooo, look at the little plane just kidding. I really like your airplane you can almost see it smiling after its first flight, how did you like building it? I'm glad you like how it flys and yes I think a rudder or two would help a little.

I don't have any suggestions for you regarding the fuel system that's the way it is ( sorry ), your airplane attracted me for the simple reason that I'm building the daddy ( Enforcer with a twist + rudders ) check it out. ( next post )

I hope a get to like my airplane as much as you like yours.

CARS II
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Old 10-03-2004, 01:37 AM
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CARS II
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

Under construction.
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Old 10-04-2004, 01:15 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

I built a force one and put in dual rudders, dual aileron servos (working as elevons), an elevator servo, front nose gear and throttle servos. The main problem was one of weight. As the wing loading went up the plane would barely get off the ground unless the engine was running full out. If it wasn't quite peaked it took off like a ducted fan and then sat there stalling until it hit the ground. Imagine a duck with a brick taped to it's back. I do not recommend increasing the weight to get the rudder controls. When the engine quit, the plane litterally pancaked out of the sky, the glide ratio was about 1:1. The other mistake I made was to have elevons and the central elevator. I had the two ailerons work as elevons, and the central elevator work in elevator mode. So the entire trailing edge was an elevator. The problem with this is simply that you can stall the entire wing with up elevator. I have flown deltas (many) for a long time (4 years), one of mine has 500+ flights on it, so I have some experience with delta flight. I was doing cuban eights with the force one at full throttle. The wing had a high speed stall going straight down in the cuban eight. The plane landed in a pancake fashion. It fell out of the air flat like a rock at 100 mph. No damage to the nose, or tail, but it drove the landing gear straight through the wing, destroying the plane.

The key things that should not be changed in this plane are the weight (mine was too heavily loaded) and the ailerons/elevator. You do not want the entire trailing edge to be an elevator. I did this because I had read a post about the Force One that it did not have enough elevator. I had too much and stalled the entire wing at full throttle and crashed.

The other major problem with this plane is the pusher prop in the wing. You are very limited in the props that are both pusher and the right diameter. They don't make an infinite number of pusher prop combinations. If you don't have enough power, you can't just put in a larger engine and prop, the slot in the wing profoundly limits what you can put in the plane. Moreover, when you loose power, air must flow through the slot ruining your glide ratio.

A vastly superior delta with landing gear, and rudders, that really flies, can tolerate a big engine, is robust, and can do most aerobatics including torque rolls, harriers, knife edge, and most pattern maneuvers except snap rolls and true spins (the wing is hard to stall) is the Delta Vortex by Bruce Tharpe. It is a fantastic plane that really works well.
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Old 10-04-2004, 01:48 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

I too just finished a force 1 and have flown it several times. Like you, I think that I'm having fuel issues. I'm using a new os 46 ax with a 10x6 apc and 8 oz tank. (I think it could definitely benefit from more power.) In any case, I have yet to solve the fuel/engine problem. I can only get about 5 minutes of flight before the engine begins to sputter and eventually dies. Usually this is about 1/2 tank. I've checked the entire system for leaks, etc. If you find, any solution to your fuel tank problem, I would certainly appreciate you sharing it. Thanks.
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Old 10-10-2004, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

I'm done with my Enforcer and soon to test flight I will be having the same fuel problem and if I get a solution I will past it along.

CARS II
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Old 11-22-2004, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

This may be too late but...
On my pushers the tank faces forward with the fuel lines running along the sides or over the tank and out(back) to the engine. This allows the fuel pickup(clunk) and vent to be set up normally. On approach with nose up the fuel is at the rear of the tank and the clunk can pull all available fuel. With your arrangement the clunk is facing forward at the front of the tank and in any nose up attitudes will lose fuel draw at low fuel levels.
My own Force One exhibited similar behavior; poor available power for the .40 engine (high losses due to prop passing thru wing). I flew with the nose wheel controlled by the aileron servo and had no rudders. It never posed a problem but you must remeber to get off the "rudder" quickly in cross wind takeoffs.
In general, a pusher situation will magnify any problems or shortcomings of an engine. Fuel draw must be good, mixture settings are critical (rich enough to cool but lean enough for max power) and cooling is much less than with the prop in front of the engine. Fuel pumps can help a lot if your engine will work properly with one.

Good luck-
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Old 11-22-2004, 08:22 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

I'm not that familiar with the Force One, but why can you turn the tank around? Most tanks are rectangular and it should fit in the same spot regardless of which way it is facing. On any plane the clunk should be at the rear, run the lines to the engine like adhflyer suggested.

If for some reason you cannot turn turn the tank around you could run brass tubing through the stopper to the other end of the tank, bend it about 120 degrees so that it faces rearward and down, then connect your clunk line. That way all of your external plumbing is the same, and the clunk is now at the rear.

Joe
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Old 11-22-2004, 11:40 PM
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HavinFun
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

Another suggestion that I read somewhere out here is the Tetra Or Jett Bladder tanks, they don't seem to care which direction they're facing.
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:11 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

I had a force one also. It flew great!!! Flew fast and landed slow and made a great sound when you are doing aileron rolls. As mentioned, I turned the tank toward the front then plumbed normally. I also used a separate servo for steering. Dual aileron servos, especially minis would make setup alot easier with a computer radio. You may get better results with a 10x7 prop on the 46 also.
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Old 08-06-2005, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

I'm considering installing small air retracts on mine (Eurokit). From what I've read here, this might be a killer ... Yes or no then ? Dual ailerons setup also planned, but no rudder if weight is really an issue...
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Old 08-09-2005, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Force-One Question

Hey Cars II,
I am just starting to build my Enforcer. I like your setup. Where did you get the pilot?

-Webtech
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