Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Scratch building a Diamond Dust

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Old 08-07-2002, 08:14 PM
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TT2
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

After seeing DDs at multiple fly-ins I think I need one. I've got a spare TT .46 Pro without a home, but would eventually move up to a Jett, Rossi or similar RE engine and pipe.

The combat planes I've been flying (home brew flying wings) really cook (110-ish), but the DDs are quite a bit faster, therefore, I need one. The only thing holding me back is that I cannot bring myself to pay $65 for a few CF tubes and less wood that would come out of my nose during a good sneeze.

A guy in my club turned his Diamond Dust into Balsa Dust so I might be able to get the plan/instructions from him.

Anyone else out there scratched one before? My primary concern is the criticality of the CF tube diameters. Could I get away with using standard CF arrow shafts for the LE, spar, and sub-spar? I wouldn't think that flex would be a major concern using CF arrow shafts, but I could be wrong...

Thanks in advance!
-Tom
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Old 08-08-2002, 01:11 AM
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ChuckAuger
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Default Tubes..

You can get them here..all sizes...

http://www.acp-composites.com/ACP-CAT.HTM
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Old 08-08-2002, 11:49 AM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

Tom,

Unless you value your time at less than the minimum wage, buying the Dust at $65 is a bargain. Keep in mind, unless we support the people who bring us these planes, there is no incentive for others to share their designs. If you are into scratch building, buy the 1st Dust and make scratch a few more in case you wear it out.

Mark M.
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Old 08-08-2002, 02:47 PM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

Thanks Chuck. Yes ACP, CST and others have all the sizes I would need, but I was trying to get away with good ol' CF arrow shafts...easy to get and very cheap. Fr'instance, yesterday on ebay a set of four went for $2.75 plus shipping. I think I even have some in my CF materials box. I'm not sure of the exact diameter, but I'm thinking they're slightly over .250". I'm thinking that I saw some .300"-ish black FG tubes at the LHS (for making pushrods ala Dave Brown), and according to the plans I saw, that's the size/material required for the LEs and rear sub-spar. Oh well...I need to place an order with ACP anyway to get some more vacuum bagging tubes.

Thanks Mark. What I'm REALLY after is a Diamond Dust / Wild Wiz hybrid tailored for a Thunder Tiger .46 Pro with a pipe. I favor the construction design of the DD over that of the WW, but the WW has a functional rudder. If you have ever seen a WW fly, you'd most likely either have one or want one...the speed is high enough to be considered extreme I suppose, but the flight envelope is MUCH wider! HIGH-speed knife-edge passes, roll rate similar to a DD, flat spins (upright and inverted) that have to be seen to be believed, the list goes on and on.

Time=money. Definitely true, but one could whizz out the ribs and ancillary plywood parts on a bandsaw in roughly 30 minutes...the rest is just sticks and tubes. I enjoy designing/building, so I consider the time spent to be worth $0 per hour, so for me, the kit is hugely overpriced. Others may consider it a 'deal'...it just depends on the individual. That being said, there is no kit available for what I'm attempting to design/build anyway, so I'm at square one.

I don't wholly believe that simple profit motives are the only incentive for people to share their designs. In the RC combat circles, sharing designs tricks and tweeks is commonplace...and it seems that any 'new' design is simply an extension of another. I get a kick out of people (whether competitors or not) eyeballing what I've created, scratching their heads and asking questions and ultimately telling me that they can't believe how great it flies! That's MY incentive, and you can't really put a price on it. I plan on firing up my 3D design software, prototyping/flying, and if the results are favorable, you can bet that I'll post plans of my creation for others to enjoy...for free. Although I'm BIG on 'skunk works'-type composite structures, I'm trying to keep it simple so that obtaining materials should not be a problem.

-Tom
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Old 08-08-2002, 03:39 PM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

then go for a hybrid....
i've got/had a diamond dust unlimited, i flew it to death, and missed an old UK style funfly so i reused the Sticks and tail, and built a new wing with the UK section, flat bottom high lift.
i've got exactly what i want, a slow flying fun fly, VERY agile and light weight, and hangs a dream.
soooooo..... get those arrow shafts, after all the DD is DAMN! strong, dun matter if they sticks are a tiny bit smaller. ask your friend if he has the sticks left from his crash, couldnt have killed all 3 bits?!!!!!!!
then scrap the Diamond shape and smooth it down to symetrical ( but not a diamond still ), build a single fin like the Wiz or Outlaw and bingo.
at $25 the Outlaw kit is damn cheap anyway.
your not building a DD, its a funfly that has the same style construction, just like most planes use a D box and ribs, cant be accused of nicking that.
i wouldnt buy a Dust and stick a rudder on it, because the wing section wasnt designed for it.


HOWEVER!!!! there may be a plane out there that IS what you want.....
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Old 08-08-2002, 03:40 PM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

and my redesigned Unlimited
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Old 08-08-2002, 03:56 PM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

<>

What do you mean?!?! That is EXACTLY what I'm looking for! Do you have any details on it or just the pic? Wow...

-Tom
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Old 08-08-2002, 05:59 PM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

i do know more, its just what im at liberty to tell.
obvisiouly its called a 3DD and the pic came from a friend who designed it but i dont think got around to kitting it.
try contacting Adrenaline RC in Florida
Adrenaline RC
5901 Lakeville Rd
Orlando Fl
32818
407 298-0358
the construction looks weird, but its an illusion, this one has crome film on the centre ribs making it look hollow, its same build as a Diamond Dust.
i've seen a video, slow flight and prop hang are more than possible.
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Old 08-09-2002, 04:44 PM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

As the saying goes, a picture paints a thousand words. Even though the picture provided me with almost everything I was curious about, I tried to call the phone number you gave. Apparently it's been disconnected. Oh well...

The center ribs had me a bit perplexed at first (what are they...Lexan?) until you mentioned the chrome film. I think I'll start with a SD8020 airfoil (a good standard symmetrical) and go from there. I've used it before on flying wings with good results when reflexed slightly, and in this application, I don't think it's all that critical.

I'm guessing 3/8" LE tapering to roughly 3/16" TE for the elevons, 1/4" sheet fin, and rudder tapering to roughly 1/8". Should be close enough. I worked up a rough materials list and it ends up being under $20 for all CF tubes (no FG tubes) and all wood required. I might have to order enough to build two. I'm supposed to get the original DD plans this weekend, so maybe by the end of next weekend I'll have one in the air. I'm stoked!

Thanks for the info, and I'll keep you posted on what I come up with...but it will probably look just like the picture!

-Tom
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Old 08-09-2002, 07:47 PM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

i thought there was a chance of that, the e-mail address isnt working either, think works got slack and they've had to hibernate till the cash summer.
i think your close enough on the materials list for sport flying, i think the one in the pic, is built from the funfly comp methods.
i'll have to look into CF supplies in the UK, theres a kite shop somewhere around here, maybe they have a few bits, or broken bits they would only throw. i still want to build a 20 size dust all CF, i have a few ideas that scrap the ply and balsa ribs for 3 or 4 bits of CF rod.
my change from that pic would be sheeting a bit more, i hate covering and dont want to fix holes every flight
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Old 08-10-2002, 11:45 PM
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Default 3DDelta

Phil, you let the cat out the bag.
Working much here. Have some prototypes
cut of the 3DDelta and finished #2
Covered ready for gear, 14oz. on 800sq.in.
Will get back with more info in time.
For now another veiw of #1
Later
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Old 08-11-2002, 04:03 AM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

I have to say that plane is flawless! Love the covering job and the design. Good job!!
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Old 08-11-2002, 07:25 AM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

philly: What do you mean when you say "built from the funfly comp methods"? Just curious. I thought about making the ribs from a carbon/divinycell/carbon sandwich...maybe. Divinycell is similar to Rohacell...basically a high compressive strength foam core material.

miderror: I really like the design if you haven't concluded that already! If you need any builders/pilots for beta-testing, put me on the list!

I monkeyed around with the design awhile tonight and here's what I came up with (please ignore the 'funkiness' where the cap strips meet the LE...I didn't feel like messing with any compound surfaces tonight and I was out of 320 grit digital sandpaper). I used the SD8020 airfoil unthinned.

-Tom
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Old 08-11-2002, 07:26 AM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

Another view:
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Old 08-11-2002, 10:27 AM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

DON! your alive
how ya doing. yer.. i kinda let slip, but hey, you designed exactly what TT2 and no doubt many others wanted.

fun fly methods means built from balsa that got weighed to millionths of microns to get best grades, not knowing you opened the cyno bottle and used some after its built.

you'll be pleased to hear Pheonix Unlimited weighs in at a healthy 3 1/2 lb, well, extra servo, lights, all adds up
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Old 10-25-2002, 11:47 PM
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Default 3D Delta

I said I'd get a little more info on the 3D Delta.
Really all I have is some pix.
First is the #2
14oz covered and read for gear.
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Old 10-25-2002, 11:50 PM
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Default 3D Delta #1

This is a pix of #1 with the lights on.
3 4"X 1/8"dia floresents and a couple leds on the tips
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Old 10-26-2002, 11:26 AM
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Default Scratch building a Diamond Dust

you wanna try the blue LED's i got this week. so bright that from my bedroom i was putting a blue glow on the cars below, i think its the same LED they use in those credit card size torches they say last a lifetime. should have used those in the Pheonix.
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