Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Reply

Old 10-05-2004, 08:25 AM
  #1  
jzinckgra
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (11)
 
jzinckgra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Standish, ME
Posts: 729
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Well to add to my small collection of "speed" planes, I was planning on buying the WM dago red. I've heard and red great things about this plane and was curious what engine to put in it. Most of what I've red here suggests either a YS 91 or a Saito 91, as far as 4 strokes are concerned. I'm not intersted in a 2 stroke. I don't need the fastest plane at the field either, so I thought either a saito 91 or the new 82 size would be good. The 82, although smaller appeals to me due to its lighter weight and I was wondering if that would offset any gains by the larger (but more heavy) saito 91? I thought about the OS 91 surpass, but that engine is almost 6 oz heavier than the saito 82. The only downfall, although minor for the saito 82 is the increase in price over the 91. Thanks.
jzinckgra is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2004, 11:03 AM
  #2  
fredscz
My Feedback: (47)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Benton, IL
Posts: 725
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

I have been flying the standard World/Airborne mustang for three plus years. I have used the 46FX, Saito 72 and now a Saito 91. I also have a couple of the new 82's on different planes. They all flew it fine without any additional weight. All I have done is move the battery around. I think the 82 would be ideal for your plane. I would not advise the OS 91 because of the weight , other than that it is a fine engine.
Fred B
fredscz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2004, 01:46 PM
  #3  
jzinckgra
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (11)
 
jzinckgra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Standish, ME
Posts: 729
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

I think the 82 would be ideal for your plane
But, do you think I'll sacrifice any speed if I go with the 82 vs. the 91?
jzinckgra is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2004, 01:52 PM
  #4  
essixx
Junior Member
My Feedback: (7)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Norwalk, IA
Posts: 28
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

I have no experience with the Saito 91, but I just finished and flew my WM Dago Red with the Saito 82. I was very happy with the performance of this combo! I used an APC 13x8 prop. I had to move the battery back to just in front of the servo mount to get it to balance. I used the aluminum spinner so that did add a little weight to the nose of the plane. Its not as fast as my Whiplash but the Dago Red is a blast to fly. I had some comments from the other fliers at my field on how fast the Dago Red flew with this combo. One thing to look out for, the wing bolts on mine would back out from the vibration. I used teflon pipe tape on the threads and that seemed to solve the problem.
essixx is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2004, 02:47 PM
  #5  
jzinckgra
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (11)
 
jzinckgra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Standish, ME
Posts: 729
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

I have no experience with the Saito 91, but I just finished and flew my WM Dago Red with the Saito 82. I was very happy with the performance of this combo! I used an APC 13x8 prop. I had to move the battery back to just in front of the servo mount to get it to balance. I used the aluminum spinner so that did add a little weight to the nose of the plane. Its not as fast as my Whiplash but the Dago Red is a blast to fly. I had some comments from the other fliers at my field on how fast the Dago Red flew with this combo. One thing to look out for, the wing bolts on mine would back out from the vibration. I used teflon pipe tape on the threads and that seemed to solve the problem.
Great. Just a couple more q's: do you fly off a grass field and if so, how are the stock retracts holding up? What size gas tank did you use? thanks
jzinckgra is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2004, 09:30 PM
  #6  
Cyclic Hardover
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Cyclic Hardover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Mexico,
Posts: 7,296
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Here's a shot of my little WM P-51 with a Saito 100 stuffed in it. I would take the 91. It will be a nice flyer and regardless of grass or asphalt, remove the retracts and slop some epoxy in and around the back side and rib area of the retract mounting blocks.

I land on asphalt but I pride myself on landings so it's rare that I bend them up. Many have complained about the stabilityof the retracts but when you ask what kind of field they fly off of , its grass. Grass is not good for retracts with out of beefing up.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ki18346.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	42.0 KB
ID:	179943  
Cyclic Hardover is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2004, 01:46 AM
  #7  
essixx
Junior Member
My Feedback: (7)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Norwalk, IA
Posts: 28
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

jzinckgra, I fly from a grass field. I used the fuel tank that was included with the plane. I think the size is 320 cc. I have only flew it about eight times, this last weekend. Just finished putting it together for the weekend. I did as Cyclic Hardover suggested and took out the retracts so I could put epoxy in those areas. I was careful with my landings because of others telling of their experience with bending the retracts with hard landings. I did end up with one landing I would consider less than perfect and it did put a slight bend in one of the retract wires. No big deal to carefully bend it back into position. I hope this helps. Good luck with whatever engine you choose. This is a fun plane to fly. I think it may even replace my Somethin' Extra as the plane I'll always take with me to the field.
essixx is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2004, 08:25 AM
  #8  
GPitts
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canyon Country, CA
Posts: 348
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Hey if you really want speed go with the YS 1.10....about 20 guys at where I fly a have the same set up with their world models mustangs.
GPitts is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2004, 08:38 AM
  #9  
GPitts
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canyon Country, CA
Posts: 348
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Also the 1.10 is the same as the 91 but with 5-8% more power....A 13x10 prop will really haul that plane in the skies....Also about the landing gears, folks that I know of that fly these mustangs wedge their landing gear on the retracts so that the wheels are a little more forward so that the plane doesnt nose over...I'm buying a WM mustang 40 myself with the same setup this coming week as soon as the Hobby shop opens from their vacation! I've seen too many of these planes everyweek and seen how well they perform and the speed!...with that in mind I just have to get one! Looking forward to race those guys as soon as I get my plane running or just fly the warbird pattern...real awesome sight to watch those mustangs, spitfires, and me-109's racing through the air with the 1.10 or the .91...all those engines running at the same time in the air without that muffler really sounds nice.
GPitts is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2004, 09:20 AM
  #10  
Cyclic Hardover
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Cyclic Hardover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Mexico,
Posts: 7,296
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

I have never had a "nose over" on my WM P-51 and all of them have had oversized engines. (61fx, G90 and Saito 100). I have seen other P-51's of various manufacturers nose over but not this one. I wold leave the wheels where they are. Now I also fly off asphalt which helps but if it's grass it could happen.
Cyclic Hardover is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2004, 08:13 AM
  #11  
GPitts
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canyon Country, CA
Posts: 348
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

well I'm not they nose over all the time....I rarely see one nose over....it just makes for easier handling and decreases the chances of tiping over. The retracts doesnt bind at all even when wedged a bit forward. Also they can takeoff or taxi around on grass and they dont noseover.
GPitts is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2004, 10:50 AM
  #12  
Flyboy Dave
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pinon Hills, CA
Posts: 13,775
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

I'd say go with the .91. I have the YS .91 in my Dago. I just don't see any reason
to put the smaller engine in it. I had the OS .91 in my previous Dago Red.

FBD.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Zw69696.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	144.8 KB
ID:	180735   Click image for larger version

Name:	Id96080.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	39.1 KB
ID:	180736  
Flyboy Dave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2004, 07:20 PM
  #13  
HookedOn4S
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Singapore, SINGAPORE
Posts: 43
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Hi Dave,

How large a cut out did you have on the cowling? Is the temperature of the engine OK? What is the average temperature of the area you fly?

I just built a WM Dago Red, but not sure hom much vent to give to my YS91AC.

cheers,
HookedOn4S is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2004, 07:27 PM
  #14  
Flyboy Dave
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pinon Hills, CA
Posts: 13,775
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

You can see the cut-out for the engine, it is actually trimmed close....

....not cut way out. There is plenty of air getting to it. I fly in the Mojave
Desert....it is always 90-100 in the summer....no problem, plenty of
cooling....just like you see it here.

You'll love the Dago, with the YS .91....it comes in pretty hot....bring it in
with a couple clicks of throttle on it. Don't try to float it in, and stall it. []

FBD.
Flyboy Dave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2004, 07:30 PM
  #15  
HookedOn4S
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Singapore, SINGAPORE
Posts: 43
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Thanks for your tips. Forgot to mention that I am in the process of migrating 1.10 in the the Dago. By the way, what prop size you using?

Happy landing!!!

cheers,
HookedOn4S is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2004, 07:37 PM
  #16  
Flyboy Dave
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pinon Hills, CA
Posts: 13,775
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

I use the 14-8 Zinger....I tried the 14-10, but it was lugging just a bit. Maybe
when it gets fully broken in it might pull it....

....the plane seems to get better with every lap.

Dave.
Flyboy Dave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2004, 07:39 PM
  #17  
HookedOn4S
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Singapore, SINGAPORE
Posts: 43
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Thanks! Can't wait to see her in the air
HookedOn4S is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2004, 10:23 PM
  #18  
HookedOn4S
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Singapore, SINGAPORE
Posts: 43
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Saito 82 or 91 for WM Dago Red?

Hi,

Pleased to share a quick report on results achieved with my WM Dago Red using info found in this thread

1) Setup
- YS1.10
- APC 13x11
- 3 1/4" Dave Brown aluminium spinner with a "Long" adapter
- no pilot figure
- had to use 60g (2.2 oz) of weight even when battery packed is placed just past the wing bolt position. Published weight of YS1.10 is 730g (26.3 oz)
- dead weight of empty bird: 3.1kg (7 lbs)
2) Achieved 9900 RPM on the ground with stable idling at 2100 RPM
3) Flying field is well mown grass
4) Did not do taxiing out
5) No nose-over on all 3 take-offs (applied up-elevator from stationary to initial roll)
6) In the air
- straight and level fast rolls
- Big Big inside loops
- unlimited vertical (well, almost)
- achieved 8 torque rolls (rolls on vertical climbs). To do this, I only needed full throttle on level flight just before entering climb. No pre-veritcal diving required.
7) 1st landing - came in too much speed, not enough flare, landed on front gear only. Result: flip over
8) 2nd landing - reduced speed, still not enough flare, still landed on front gear only. Result: nose over
9) 3rd landing - reduced speed further (about 2 clicks from idle, coming to about 3 feet height, then full idle), more flare than 2nd landing. Achieved 3 point landing. Let it roll a bit more to slow down, then applied full up elevator. No nose over. Bird came to full stop in upright position

Adjustments planned for next flight, objective is to optimize the bird for more speed and lesser climb (I think I don't really need 8 torque rolls with this bird).
a) to move fuel tank closer to servo tray, away from firewall
b) to move battery pack further back to see if how much of the 60g (2.2 oz) weight can be removed. I am not sure if this is worth it. 60/3100 is less than 2% weight saving.
c) Not sure if I should change prop to 12x12, or even 12x13 to trade the excess vertical for even higher speed.
d) Not sure what else should I do to further reduce the dead weight. I can't think of any except converting the retracts to a fixed, translating to weight saving of perhaps another 2%

Would a 2% - 4% weight saving translate to significant gain in speed? Any comment, suggestion or advice will be very much appreciated!

cheers,
p.s. Dave, thanks for your tips on the landing approach. I believe my Dago was saved from damage by your advice on coming in with power. Another guy doing maiden flight with his war bird (not sure which model, but larger one) got his bird stalled when coming in for landing, and had to carry the plane back in more than two pieces []
HookedOn4S is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 08:48 PM
  #19  
Radcom
Senior Member
 
Radcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: newrichmond, WI
Posts: 171
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Epoxy

I got my WM Dago Red now,still in the box.
I read about putting epoxy behind the firewall
and retracts. What Expoxy do you use for that ?
Any special band ?
Radcom is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service