Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Help! F-20 tigershark

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Old 10-20-2004, 06:16 PM
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freebird1
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Default Help! F-20 tigershark

I love speed. I also love the prop jets. I have a .40 ARF Patriot, Patriot XL in the making, Phantom, And would love to add the F-20 to the hanger. I am am looking for an arf. I am looking at the sportsmanf-20 at hobby peple and the Super Kraft’s F-20 at kangke site. Which is the best ARF for speed and flight. I will be using a Rossi 53 with a pitts. Help!

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Old 10-20-2004, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Well I'l tell you is there is not much to pick from right now on F-20's. Direct Connection was the best. Try and find one here or put out the word. Somebody might have a kit to sell. If not, then you have Sportsman or Kangke. Of the choices, go with Kangke.
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

The Kangke Super Kraft’s F-20 is on its way. Been looking and reading about the ARF, and only needed a little push. I have only one question as of now What kind of speed can I expect from thr Rossi 53, and would you put a pitts, short, or long tuned pipe.

Thanks a million
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Freebird,

I'm not all that familiar with the 53, but I would guesstimate 125ish if propped right. Are the Kangke F-20's retract ready?

Back when Cermark was producing them, the 60 had retracts, while the 40 had fixed gear (had both, now just the 60 size). I also have the DC F-20 in the pile, however, I don't think it is geared for retacts either. I may just use fixed, with racing wheels.....that's down the road though.....a few projects are in front of that one!

Let us know how the Kangke looks, and also the quality of it. A great choice BTW!

Gary
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Old 10-20-2004, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

I think it has fixed gear! I know the Rossi is not a jett, but it is a mean engine. I was thinking the same range of MPH. I think I will go with the pitts to cut the drag. I just do not know how the long pipe will aid in the speed of the F- 20 with the drag of the long pipe. I have a Rossi 45 and retracts on my Patriot ARF and it runs around 100, but is a super flying plane. The Rossi's love fuel and I am running 15%. the Kangke has a small tank. has anyone upgraded to a bigger tank, and would you go with 20% fuel.
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Old 10-20-2004, 09:47 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

What prop do you think. I am running a 9x8 APC with the 45 Rossi on the Patriot. I was thinking of a 10x6 APC
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Old 10-20-2004, 10:08 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

I'd probably start with a 10x7/10x8 and go from there. Like I said, I'm really not familiar with the Rossi's, so maybe even a 9x9 would work. We've even cut down 10's to 9.5's! Hopefully, Bob, or someone who has run these will help ya here.

Keep the gear light & tight, and you won't notice that big of a difference as far as speed goes. You will, however, lose the "gear up" COOL factor!

Gary
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Old 10-20-2004, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

I have the same F-20(Cermark) Using a APC 9/8. Webra 50 tachs 15k on the ground. 115mph flying
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Old 10-21-2004, 09:46 AM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

I have had a few good reports on the Kange F-20. Seems like a good plane.

CG is the only issue with any of these. The Rossi 53 is a very good engine, but its a bit heavy. Keep that in mind, and when assembling the aircraft, do everything you an to keep the gear in the aft end!

You may want to just start with a simple 10x6. With the gear down, its quick but a bit draggy, so letting the engine unload a bit and still having good airflow is a good start. Moving to a 10x7 would be a good next step. Maybe a 9x8 or 9x9 once you are familiar with its take off and landing tendencies.
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Old 10-21-2004, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Hi

THanks for the info. MustangAce, the photo you have was posted in another thread. It was one of the reasons I got the Kankge. I love the looks. Yes the Rossi is a bit heavy. I have never had a plane with a JETT yet, but I have the Patriot XL and a JETT L90 to start on this winter.

MustangAce, any advice on land and takeoff?
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Old 10-21-2004, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

I intentionally made my wheels a little tight. This caused takeoffs (with the 9/8) to be a little longer than normal. Landing roll was short. I always made long flat approaches. Keep a little power till it gets close enough to see well. You will be able to grease it on the mains most of the time. Mine is light with the GT50, so in turbulent conditions I don't fly. Go early with little wind and make longer approaches. Keep us posted.
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Mustang- I will have to look it up when I get home but I am pretty sure my Webra-50GT (Patriot) was turning an apc 9x8 around 16K+

I do not recommend using higher than 5% in a Rossi---
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Old 10-21-2004, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Thanks

I was thinking of useing raceing wheels instead of retracts. I do not think the Kangke will come ready for retracts. What do you think about raceing wheels? Razor-RCU, I have been useing 15% in my Rossi 45, and runs great. If you do not mind why is 15% to high.

Thanks Freebird
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Old 10-21-2004, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

I have heard that some folks use 15% with or without a head-shim.... Seems to me the instructions mention 0-5%- Hey if it works go ahead and do it

I did read on a Rossi web-site that the rpm results were lower on the 45 (and I think the 53) when using the pitts style muffler... I will try to find it and post it here- OK it mentions 10% but only at high altitude nd it mentions using a head-shim*

June 19, 2004
SG Model Engines (818) 472-8460 http://shop.vendio.com/RossiEnginesUSA
Instructions and Test Data for Rossi Engines
Prepared By: Sahak Ghoukasian; SG Model Engines
Advisor: Joe Wagner; AMA Model Aviation Magazine; Engine Columnist
These instructions and the test data are created to assist you in selecting the best propeller, silencer,
tuned pipe, glow plug and fuel for your application of the Rossi Engine(s). The test data is measured
and recorded with fuels, propellers, silencers, tuned pipes, and glow plugs that are available from hobby
shops.
FUELS
The tests are performed with three brands of fuels:
PowerMaster (#1) FAI: 20% oil, (80% methanol, 20% castor oil) and
PowerMaster Premium Sport: 10% nitro, 18% oil (1/3 castor and 2/3 synthetic blend).
Byron Fuels (#2) FAI: 18% oil, (20% castor, 80% synthetic blend) and
Byron Fuels Premium Sport: 10% nitro, 18% oil, (20% castor, 80% synthetic blend).
Morgan Fuels (#3) Omega FAI: 17% oil, (30% castor, 70% synthetic blend) and
Morgan Fuels Omega: 10% nitro, 17% oil, (30% castor, 70% synthetic blend).
Fuels recommended for Rossi engines contain castor oil or a blend of castor and synthetic oil. Fuels with
only synthetic oil are not recommended for Rossi engines. Higher nitro fuels are recommended for high
altitude locations. Add a 0.1mm or 0.2mm copper shim under the engine head in hot weather and for
fuels with high nitro content to decompress the engine.
PROPELLERS
The propellers that we recommend and used in our tests are the Landing Products APC propellers.
We recommend sanding the sharp edges of the propellers lightly and balance the props before use.
Considerations for propeller selection:
Many variables affect propeller performance. As you can see from the test data, low pitch propellers
create greater STATIC thrust on the bench test. However, DYNAMIC thrust is different. When the
engine is on an airplane in flight, its flying speed and drag affect propeller performance. Here is an easy-to-
calculate relationship: The maximum possible speed (in miles per hour) of a propeller-driven airplane
equals the propeller pitch in inches times the prop rpm in thousands.
For example per the test results:
14 - 4 prop @ 10,000 rpm : 4 X 10 = 40 mph -- maximum possible speed
12 - 6 prop @ 12,000 rpm : 6 X 12 = 72 mph -- maximum possible speed
12 -10 prop @ 9,800 rpm : 10 X 9.8 = 98 mph -- maximum possible speed
For this it is obvious the 14-4 prop tested on the Rossi 65 engine would be a good choice for a big scale
model with plenty of wing area and lots of drag. But on a faster, low-drag R/C model, the 14-4 prop
would be a bad choice in spite of its high static thrust. In other words, the propeller has to be chosen to
suit the airplane and its range of flying speeds.

Here is the info. on the 45:
June 19, 2004
SG Model Engines (818) 472-8460 http://shop.vendio.com/RossiEnginesUSA
Rossi 27R45 Tested: FAI fuel, Rossi R4 glow plug, no head shim.
Rossi 4011 Mini Tuned Silencer
Propeller RPM Static Thrust
10 x 6 15000 2.74 Kg ( 6.04 lbs)
10 x 7 14200 2.62 Kg ( 5.78 lbs)
10 x 8 12500 2.11 Kg (4.65 lbs)
11 x 6 11700 2.39 Kg ( 5.27 lbs)
Bisson (BCM) 2845 Pitts Muffler
Propeller RPM Static Thrust
10 x 6 13000 2.13 Kg (4.7 lbs)
10 x 7 12800 2.06 Kg (4.54 lbs)
10 x 8 11800 1.82 Kg (4.01 lbs)
11 x 6 11500 2.3 Kg (5.07 lbs)
Rossi 6033 Tune Pipe with Rossi 16023 Header
Propeller RPM Static Thrust Length
10 x 7 14100 2.48 Kg (5.47 lbs) 19"
10 x 7 14100 2.48 Kg (5.47 lbs) 18.5”
10 x 7 14200 2.57 Kg (5.67 lbs) 18”
10 x 7 14300 2.59 Kg (5.71 lbs) 17.5”
10 x 7 14800 2.77 Kg (6.11 lbs) 17”
10 x 7 14500 2.54 Kg (5.6 lbs) 16.5”
10 x 7 13800 2.3 Kg (5.07 lbs) 16”
Rossi 67R53 Tested: FAI fuel, Rossi R5 glow plug, no head shim.
Rossi 4011 Mini Tuned Silencer
Propeller RPM Static Thrust
10 x 6 15700 2.99 Kg (6.59 lbs)
10 x 7 15000 2.87 Kg (6.33 lbs)
10 x 8 13600 2.34 Kg (5.16 lbs)
11 x 6 12200 2.45 Kg (5.4 lbs)
11 x 7 12000 2.66 Kg (5.86 lbs)
Bisson (BCM) 2845 Pitts Muffler
Propeller RPM Static Thrust
10 x 6 13500 2.25 Kg (4.96 lbs)
10 x 7 13000 2.19 Kg (4.83 lbs)
10 x 8 12300 2.05 Kg (4.52 lbs)
11 x 6 12000 2.54 Kg (5.6 lbs)
11 x 7 11500 2.53 Kg (5.58 lbs)
Rossi 6033 Tune Pipe with Rossi 16023 Header
Propeller RPM Static Thrust Length
10 x 8 13800 2.4 Kg (5.29 lbs) 19”
10 x 8 14000 2.44 Kg (5.38 lbs) 18.5”
10 x 8 14100 2.61 Kg (5.75 lbs) 18”
10 x 8 13800 2.41 Kg (5.31 lbs) 17.5”
10 x 8 13600 2.36 Kg (5.2 lbs) 17”

And the 53:

Rossi 67R53 Tested: FAI fuel, Rossi R5 glow plug, no head shim.
Rossi 4011 Mini Tuned Silencer
Propeller RPM Static Thrust
10 x 6 15700 2.99 Kg (6.59 lbs)
10 x 7 15000 2.87 Kg (6.33 lbs)
10 x 8 13600 2.34 Kg (5.16 lbs)
11 x 6 12200 2.45 Kg (5.4 lbs)
11 x 7 12000 2.66 Kg (5.86 lbs)
Bisson (BCM) 2845 Pitts Muffler
Propeller RPM Static Thrust
10 x 6 13500 2.25 Kg (4.96 lbs)
10 x 7 13000 2.19 Kg (4.83 lbs)
10 x 8 12300 2.05 Kg (4.52 lbs)
11 x 6 12000 2.54 Kg (5.6 lbs)
11 x 7 11500 2.53 Kg (5.58 lbs)
Rossi 6033 Tune Pipe with Rossi 16023 Header
Propeller RPM Static Thrust Length
10 x 8 13800 2.4 Kg (5.29 lbs) 19”
10 x 8 14000 2.44 Kg (5.38 lbs) 18.5”
10 x 8 14100 2.61 Kg (5.75 lbs) 18”
10 x 8 13800 2.41 Kg (5.31 lbs) 17.5”
10 x 8 13600 2.36 Kg (5.2 lbs) 17”
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Old 10-21-2004, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Also, I checked on my Webra-50GT and I am getting 16.2K on apc 9x8, 5% and I think an OS-8... This was a quick test a few weeks ago, I am sure I can get more...

It is also worth mentioning that my Jett-50 was before I had a good tach (Darnit) and my OS-50SX is 15.7K on apc 9x8, 15% OS-8 and my K&B-48 was a few hundred lower but I am using the wrong muffler...

The Rossi I just got (45) I will check on that 5%... and it is worth mentioning the Webra has the fastest throttle response of any engine I have seen... Except for maybe the Jett-50

James
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Old 10-21-2004, 11:23 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

I need to recheck mine. By the way do you have a new one? I think the muffler is a little different in the new ones.
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Old 10-22-2004, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

WOW! that is an answer to my question. I have a new Rossi 53. I have all three types of mufflers used with this engine (short, long, and pitts). If I am looking at the data correctly, To get the most SPEED with my 15% nitro, use the short Mini Tuned Silencer muffler and a APC 10x6?

Thanks a million
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Old 10-22-2004, 07:57 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Mustang - My Webra is old school with the BIG low-speed needle adjustment...
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Old 10-27-2004, 10:09 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Got the F-20 today. SUPER ARF! I see only a few mods like a larger tank. I am starting with a 10x7 APC and the Mini Tuned Silencer muffler. May be ready this week end. I will let you know how it goes. OOOOO, does any one know if the ARF is tail or nose heavy.

Thanks
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Old 10-27-2004, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Mine was a little nose heavy because I had to mount the engine a little farther forward. (1/4 inch gap between spinner and fuse)

Added weight to the tail and have the CG towards the aft range. Flys great.

You are speaking of the Kangke version, right?


By the way, where is Coalmont? I'm in Nashville.
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Old 10-28-2004, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

ORIGINAL: Razor-RCU

The Rossi I just got (45) I will check on that 5%... and it is worth mentioning the Webra has the fastest throttle response of any engine I have seen... Except for maybe the Jett-50

James
James,

Were you there when I flew the Magnum? I was running PM 15%, and throttle response was INSTANTANEOUS. The WEST 50's are impressive, to say the least.

I'm currently working on my Rifle/Jett 50 combo, so you'll have to come up for the maiden....

Gary
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Old 10-28-2004, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Hey Freebird,

What size tank comes with the F-20? Is there room for a bigger tank?
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Old 10-28-2004, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

Gary- I missed the Magnum... I have never seen one fly- I did see a pink delta that was purty quick tho...

I have been asking Dave when we can hook up at the mud-hole, I mean El Mirage- I have flown the Patriot arf a couple times... No retracts (yet) the Webra-50 pulls it nicely, but not Jett-like.

I really need to get a sonic and GMS so I can make some turns with y'all

I got ahold of another Rossi-45, dunno what plane for it though....
How close are you to finishing the Rifle?
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Old 10-28-2004, 10:22 PM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

"By the way, where is Coalmont? I'm in Nashville."
Hey we will have to met and burn some nitro someday. Do you no where Mcminnville is. I went Sat. to a new club in Dayton called Falling Water to support them. Man the hobby is really catching on in in my area.


It is the Kangke version. It comes with a 220cc. Very small for a 53 fuel loving Rossi. I bought a Hynes 12 Oz. The only tank I could find that was a close match. May have to trim a little. I am hopeing it will work. I will keep you posted.

Is the Cermark version a good ARF. May be able to get my hands on one.
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Old 10-29-2004, 06:25 AM
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Default RE: Help! F-20 tigershark

The 2 versions are identical. As far as a bigger fuel tank goes, some have made a hatch and Dremeled out the tank area. I kept the original tank and fly for about 6 min with my Webra 50.
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