Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

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Old 11-24-2004, 12:29 AM
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cobratraxxas69
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Default Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

I'm torn between the two. From what I have read, it seems that the Dust is superior in every way. It is defintely lighter, meaning a lower wing loading, less up-elevator needed to maintain level flight and thus faster speed. It takes off much easier and doesn't have the tendency to torque roll right into the ground after hand launching (which I have seen several times from videos on RCU). It's elevon hinges are not as tight as the Whiplash's, so you don't need extra beefy servos to move the control surfaces. The real downside with the Dust for me is the building. I hate building (and have never covered before) and like the appeal of having the composite Whiplash all ready to go. (How long would it take to build and cover the Dust?)

If you have flown both, your insight would especially be appreciated.

Thank you,


Mike
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Old 11-24-2004, 01:59 AM
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Razor-RCU
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Well if the DD is superior in "every way" what is this post all about?

I have only flown the Whiplash (2) and I love them ... The DD is lighter, but it is also weaker since it is built up- if you have a bad launch the Whip will probably NOT be broken whereas the DD may sustain damage-- The Whip while heavier launches easily with a decent engine (even my 46FX had plenty of power for a casual launch---) and you do not have to worry about the covering coming off at 150MPH

Yes, I use beefy servos but they are Hitec-645MG's, @ $39.99 x 2 even I can afford that- and I run 6V which gives me 133 oz or torque Some folks use Robart hinge-points to free up the elevons, has not been an issue for me-

Less up elevator? I don't use reflex in my elevons, a little "up" on launch and I'm good-

Torque roll on launch? The DD is lighter, seems like it would be more prone to that...

I would love to have a DD but hate to build, sound familiar? The Whip comes in the box (2 pieces- Delta and rudders), throw a paint job on and mount the gear, the next day you are doing 150 and landing on a kevlar belly...[8D]

I will always have a Whiplash in my fleet and NO I do not work for ACM!
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Old 11-24-2004, 08:01 AM
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smchale
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

I have both. I have been flying my dust for many years and it has proven to be quite a fun and robust little plane. It has a K&B 6.5 (.40) on it and it's quite spirited. The engine is pretty much worn out now and I wanted another so a couple months ago I bought a Whiplash. It will have a Jett FIRE 50 on it and I expect very similar performance. Why change? I was keen to put a cool paint job on a sport model and the Whiplash posed the perfect 'canvas' for that. The DD was not difficult to cover, the first time I did it blew off in flight...pretty amusing really...like a big speed break. When I recovered it I did it in one piece...from the trailing edge, wrapped around the leading edge, and back to the trailing edge. That was back in 98 or 99 and it's been fine ever since. As far as torque rolling on take off, don't be fooled that the DD won't, because mine most certainly does and it gets the heart rate up really fast on launch...in fact the launch is about the only difficult thing about flying it...the rest of the flight is a breeze and it glides fantastic. A flying buddy of mine also bought a whiplash as well as a launcher so i'm confident that we will have much more predictable launches with the whips.

I think the only difference in the two as far as a decison on which one comes down to initial $$. I'm sure as soon as you start taking these rascals out to the field the fun factor will quickly out weigh any cost you put down!
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Old 11-24-2004, 08:50 AM
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Cyclic Hardover
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

The Whiplash is not the best plane to hand launch by yourself. I now some guys who put wheels on them to avoid the nightmare. The DD is reall easy and light. You just stand the plane on its side by your leg and flip it out like a frisbee.
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:26 AM
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rockhouse
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Want a DD but hate to build? I have a DD built & covered. Just install the tails & ailerons. $125.00 shipped.

Joe
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Old 11-24-2004, 01:16 PM
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pdxpaul
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

I learned about the torque roll of DD on launch the hard way. The stronger the motor and higher the prop pitch, the harder they will pull left and down. I solved it with high rate ailerons on launch. I have about 1/2 inch of throw. Just a blip of right stick within the first 20 to 30 feet to keep the wing level, and the DD will fly straight out. Just be careful not to over compensate. Paul
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Old 11-24-2004, 01:26 PM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

After building two Dust (still have one) I would say it is a very fast and easy build compared to most kits. There just arn't many parts to put together. My biggest problem with a Whiplash is the weight. Not just a ounce or two heavier then a Dust but a pound of two. The Dust is also a fraction of the cost of a Whip.
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Old 11-24-2004, 02:32 PM
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Razor-RCU
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

My WHip is just over 4 lbs. and cost me $160- both fine with me!

It flies wonderfully, and due to its composite construction is SUPER tough!

How much does a DD weigh?
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Old 11-24-2004, 06:30 PM
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Carl.E
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

My (2nd) Dust weighs 2 lbs 14 oz with digital metal geared servos and a Jett 46 in the nose.

As for build time, it will take you longer to cover than it takes to frame it up... 6 ribs, 2 fiberglass spars, and a carbon LE doesn't take long to put together.

I'm sure you'll thoroughly enjoy either choice.

Carl
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Old 11-24-2004, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Here are the facts:

Dust = LIGHT... that's its big advantage... that plane is a hoot to fly for one reason, and one reason alone: it is light! It will do anything you want, as long as you keep it light. It's a kite...

Whip = RIGID... that thing will stand up to any amount of power you throw at it... but it is not light. At least, not as light as a Dust. Last week there was a guy in here asking about putting an OS 91 VRDF into a Dust.... OK, that's stuff you can do to a Whip (if you can shoehorn it in there), but not to a Dust... Get the point?

I planted my Dust 3 weeks ago... and my Magnum 1 week ago... Guess where the Magnum power plant is going: right... it is going into a Dust.
I've got a DF engine to spare... Guess where that one's going... indeed... a Whip! This thing just begs for BRUTAL POWER...
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:04 PM
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cobratraxxas69
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Wow so the Whiplash is almost 100% heavier than the Dust. That can explain a lot regarding its interesting take-off behavior.

What would be the fastest engine (in the $150 and below range) to put on a Dust?
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Old 11-24-2004, 11:05 PM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

It won't be the fastest but my 2.5 pound DD with an OS .32 is awesome, easy to launch, fly and land. I fly on just one rate, but switch to a hyper rate for mind blowing rolls. APC 8x8 or 7.2x8.6 works best with a MACs header and pipe. A WEBRA .50 & 8x9 prop would turn up the heat with a 1/4 pound weight penalty. My WEBRA .50 on a bench run threw the blades on a 8x10 APC sport prop, so plan accordingly.

BTW, launch tecnique, throw the plane with the right wing low, and slightly down from level. I am left handed, so launching is natural, but even right handers are coordinated enough to send a plane off with the left hand. Don't trust other people to throw it for you, no matter how much they try to help.
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Old 11-24-2004, 11:26 PM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

My second Dust came out at 2 lb 12 oz (no fuel) with a Jett 50. It also cost under $100 by the time it was covered. As CP mentioned an OS 32 SX would be a good choice or for less money and good performance go with a TT Pro 36 and a Mousse can pipe.
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Old 11-25-2004, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Time to chime in, for starters, heres the FUNdamental difference between these two GREAT aircraft..
Personally I like the idea of something hitting the ground at 150 mph and in most cases, change the prop and go fly again.. but that is of course a very biased opinion

As I've said on many occasions, both of these high performance planes have their own advantages and disadvantages, it all boils down to personal preference, the amount of free time one has and how much your time is worth, and would you rather be flying or building?

One thing is a certainty, regardless of which aircraft you choose, you'll have tons of fun...

Happy Thanksgiving

"By the way, those legs belong to Brunhilda, my secretary" [X(]
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Old 11-25-2004, 01:11 PM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Brunhilda needs to find a razor, start off with a lawn mower first
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Old 11-25-2004, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

You are spanning a foot and standing on it? That's not very strong. I could span 48" on my Formula One wings and do it with 170 lbs. And that was with a 10" chord at the root.
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Old 11-25-2004, 09:38 PM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

This is only a comparison to a Diamond Dust. If you recall sir, the post is questioning a diamond dust and whiplash. There was nothing mentioned about a formula one airframe..
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Old 11-25-2004, 09:48 PM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Your photo is to give the impression of amazing strength?
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Old 11-26-2004, 12:44 AM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Well, to build something much stronger than needed to withstand the forces of flight is foolish. Some of the art of doing this stuff is to know when enough is enough. The maker of the WHIP should be proud of the fact that he has developed a plane that is supporting his habit, [I'll bet!]. As a comparison, I would not stand on my DD, but if I felt that I needed something that could hold my weight at 4 foot of span, I'd just use a 2x4..
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Old 11-26-2004, 01:04 AM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

Highplains- Where is YOUR pic then?

Don't start flamin' Rick- He is just showing how strong the Whip is compared to a DD, which IS a fundamental difference in these two airframes---
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Old 11-26-2004, 01:06 AM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

5 1/2 lb. plane pulling in the 30-40 g range, how strong does it need to be? With a wing that weighs in at about 20 oz, the wing needs to hold up to 160# load. The one's that didn't would fold up. Saw that happen a lot when we flew in high gusty winds due to wind shear.

I did see a modeler (?) use a 2x4 one time in his Taurus airplane. Was it you? He had built a Heathkit radio with KPS-12's servos. They were small for the era, about 1.2 oz. each. What amazed me, was this guy used a 2X4 for a servo tray that was about 6" long. I swear to God, just like the one you have in the walls of your house. What was just as wild, was that he didn't like the pivit pins inside the servos, so he had drilled through the gears with drill bits that were larger, and then broke them off to provide the "new larger gear pivots". The broken ends of the drill bits were sticking out through the top of the servos. Fortunately, he forgot his transmitter that day, and when he went home to get it I left the field.

All completely true, but even I couldn't believe my eyes that day.
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Old 12-02-2004, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: Which should I buy? Whiplash or Dust??

no choice now with whip production suspended
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