Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

.40 Patriot with INTERNAL Tuned Pipe

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Old 12-22-2004, 12:03 AM
  #1  
CptSBW
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Default .40 Patriot with INTERNAL Tuned Pipe

Looking for some help here. I have decided to scale down for this winters project and build a .40 GP Patriot Kit that has been on the shelf for over a year. I want to build this kit with a tuned pipe located inside the fuselage. If anyone has already done it, please let me know what major issues you ran into and what pipe setup you used. And if you have any pics that would be awesome. I am going to use the mechanical retracts as recommended by GP and am not sure which engine I will use. I am open to any suggestions, however I do have a Webra .50 and a OS .46fx sitting around begging for a chance to fly. After a few years of going bigger and bigger, I am going to try smaller and FASTER... All you speed freaks out there share your wisdom and I will listen. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Steven
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Old 12-22-2004, 02:59 AM
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Razor-RCU
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Default RE: .40 Patriot with INTERNAL Tuned Pipe

Oooh! I get motivated when I see Patriot posts Unfortunately I have no direct info. about this type of application but it seems I have read of something similar... (Try a search)

I would think a rear exhaust engine would be a viable option... Also, the Webra-50GT is MUCH more powerful than the 46FX, in fact other than a Jett-50, YS-45 or West-0 the Webra would be my next choice...

I have/had 4 Patriot's 2 ARF's and 2 Kits:
1. ARF version- Irvine-53, 10x7 APC, 5%, fixed gear (along time ago-) flew great plenty fast-
2. Kit version- ASP-46, Spring-Air rets. split flaps, flew great... Replaced ASP with Jett-50 Super-freakin'-sonic! 9x9 APC, K&B1L plug on 15% Powermaster-
3. ARF version- Webra-50GT, 9x8 APC, 5%, fixed gear- Need to add retracts but the Patriot arfs are rare and beautiful, flies awesome and easier to get proper CG with Webra up front-
4. Kit version- OS-50SX W/Tower muffler, Mechanical retracts, 9.5x8 (custom prop from Airgar), OS-8 and 15% PM, flies VERY well but noticeably slower than the Jett version-

I know my post is not especially helpful but let me throw out these Speed Freak hallmarks for the Patriot: (Not required but fun to list!)


Leave off the intakes (too draggy) unless you really like the looks of them-
Glass the center section of the wing no matter what engine you run-
Please do it in the Blue Angels Opposing Solo scheme and post pics

Lastly, standard servos are fine including only 1 on the ailerons, and avoid flaperons. But use 6V if you go this route to get at least 60 OZ. torque---

Keep us posted!

Here are a couple pics from my collection-
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Old 12-22-2004, 04:35 AM
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Default RE: .40 Patriot with INTERNAL Tuned Pipe

I built one a few years back...I used an MVVS .49 that I rotated the cyl. on to a rear exhaust. I used a modified YS .45 (Macs ) fuse. top header and pipe, and only had to mod. the top of the fuse. a little bit to give the pipe a nice channel to sit in.
A good buddy of mine helped me make a mold to make a 'glass fuse. top that encompassed the entire pipe with a simulated canopy/turtledeck, and I routed the exhaust out to either side of the fin with a bifurcated exh. outlet(s)
The rest was pretty straight foreward, but if I did it again, I'd use either a pump or a YS set-up so I could use a bigger tank and put it over the wing.
No pics, 'cuz I sold it not too long after I finished it (only had maybe 30 flights on 'er ) but that's another story...

Brief story: Guy we've never seen before comes out to the field, sees it fly, and asks me how much I want for it...I say "it's not for sale" and he says "everything's for sale, for the right price"...
Anyway, he kept at me and I half jokingly said "oh, about 1200 bucks" and he goes "SOLD" so I looked at him, and he takes this huge roll of bills out of his pocket and peels off 12 hundred dollar bills and hands 'em to me [X(] just like that! Didn't even make a dent in that roll he had there...I shoulda said "a couple grand!?" Never saw the guy again?!
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:42 AM
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Default RE: .40 Patriot with INTERNAL Tuned Pipe

I had something like that happen to me years ago. I had just finished a Kalt Baron 20 in a Jet Ranger fuselage (helicopter). Was out flying it the second weekend, and some guy hassled me "How much". I did the same thing you did.. pulled a monster number out of my butt. A stack of $100 bills later, and my gorgous little red white and black jet ranger was never seen again Likely hanging in someones office to this day.

As to the initial post....... I've had a handful of folks email me recent about doing this. In short, if this is going to be a "lets see if I can do it" project, then have at it. On the other hand, if you are considering this to get that "little extra bit of speed" from the Patriot... probably not worth it... you can set up a side exhaust engine with just as much power, and the plane will be just as fast.

Use that Webra 50, put a jett muffler on it....... 9x8 prop.........have fun.

If you chose to proceed with the RE.....

Using a RE engine and building a custom upper deck and canopy (as noted above) is likely the way to go if you want an enclosed pipe. Search back in the posts here a bit. The questions has been asked before, and we had a few photos of other RE pattern ship installations. (looks for photos of an EU1-A, Arrow, XLT, Escape, Citation.

If you do want to use the SE engines, you may consider rotating the cylinder down 35deg, and running the pipe semi-enclosed under the belley. (Look for info on the dave brown / great planes Illusion - pattern ship circa 1985). Nose gear installation may be tricky in the patriot, but not impossible.... has to be offset to one side a bit, with the header hugging the other side. (Search for photos of a Conquest 4, Aurora 60, Summit, Illusion for ideas on the offset nosegear)

Bob
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:13 PM
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John A
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Default RE: .40 Patriot with INTERNAL Tuned Pipe

I've been long overdue on updating progress on my Patriot, mainly because I've been long overdue on getting back to it. I got a job offshore and I only made it to the flying field twice the later half of this year to give you an idea of the free time I've had lately.

Anywho, there are some shots of my bird on these threads:
http://tinyurl.com/3zzag
http://tinyurl.com/55tj7

I've had two problems finishing it up. The wire I used for the mechanical landing gear would eventually bend and lose it's shape after a couple of cycles. Gear would either not lock up or down after a few tries. I didn't want to cut the covering open and screw it up, but one of my cats gave me a good excuse to after jumping up on my workbench (nothing serious, just holes where the claws punched through). So thats what I'm working on now. Decided to use bellcranks. The covering needs some tightening but here's some recent pics:

[img][/img]

Anyway, I had to offset the nose wheel, and bend the output of the pipe to go around it. If you are going to enclose the pipe, you must either make allowances for length changes or work it out ahead of time. I ran my setup before I installed it to get what I wanted. I have a shaved APC 10*7 turning around 16000 k on the ground, and it would be REAL hard to change the pipe length more than half an inch either way right now. That's a stock prop in the picture, BTW.

The other serious problem I had was getting the fuel system worked out. As you can see from the picture, I am using crankcase pressure. I use a Robart fueler and a check valve on the case pressure with a "T" to vent it to keep the case from flooding. The fuel filter is tied to the exhaust while I am working on it. It has a route in the removable lower cowl for operating. This is an old Pylon engine that's had a few tweaks to get it to run with a carb and act civilized. Idle is finally steady after some work and I am certain enough in the setup now that I feel safe to fly it. Hopefully soon. Bellcranks are done and I just have to recover the wing tomorrow and I should be able to finish it up with a few more hours work.
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Old 12-28-2004, 03:43 AM
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Default RE: .40 Patriot with INTERNAL Tuned Pipe


Can anyone help me please?
I am looking to purchase a copy of the GP Patriot plans (.40 size).
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Old 12-30-2004, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: .40 Patriot with INTERNAL Tuned Pipe

Hey proptop, question for ya on your enclosed pipe install...

I'm setting up my patriot witha rear exhaust engine too. in your setup, did you leave the fuel tank in the original location and ran the header back and over/away from the fuse a bit then had it re-enter the fuse just behind the fule tank? how long was the header that you used and can you remember roughly what the distance was from the exhaust port to the beginning of the tune pipe?

anybody think about getting a bit of air into the fuse to keep the pipe a bit cooler? i've never used a pipe so i don't even know if they get hot enough to mess things up inside like the Rx, servos, etc.

I've had this kit in the box and put away for about 4 years and i've been really itching to get it built with a rossi and enclosed pipe. i just started building two weeks ago and figure it'll be ready in about 3 months.
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