Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

The "Rifle" thread.....

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Old 12-27-2004, 03:45 PM
  #1  
AirGar
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Default The "Rifle" thread.....

I thought I would start a thread with pics of the Rifle, as I progressed. I know there are a few others who have ordered them, so if any of you want to share anything....please feel free!

I'm going with a SJ 50 up front that should just be about the same as the Magnum/West 50 combo. If any of you are going to be using something different, let Angel know so he don't pre-drill the mount. Perhaps he could chime in on what motor "footprint" he used. It's very close to the SJ, so I'll be able to make it work. After the motor is set up, you'll have to take the mount off to seal this area. Just don't forget to loc-tite the screws when you put it back on.

When you glue the balsa block fillers to the nose, you will have the option of either a 2 1/2" or 2 1/4" spinner. I chose the 2 1/4". This was a great idea on Angel's part.

Don't forget to check the clearance at the throttle arm. I always use the Dubro ball links, but I may reverse it (ball on inside), so I don't have to take too much off.

I added 1/2" tri stock to the bottom of the stab, even though Angel said it wasn't necessary. I always say..."an ounce of prevention".... When it gets closer to covering time, I may reshape the outside edges a touch too.

When I first started this, he had run the vertical stab "grain" vertical, so I opted to make a new one for additional strength. I also decided to "pin" it, and glass it for added strength. See pics....

I also added a little more angle to the rudder, to help alleviate any potential flutter.

Gary
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Old 12-27-2004, 03:52 PM
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AirGar
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

More pics.....
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Old 12-27-2004, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

More pics.....

Pic shows the 1/8" hole I drilled for the throttle linkage. I'm simply going to glue in yellow nirod for the guide, and use piano wire for the linkage.

Note the sheeting is extremely thin in this area. I broke it reaming out the throttle hole. Thin strips of balsa underneath the leading edge of this wouldn't be a bad idea. It would also help when it came time for covering.

Last pic shows the glassed area of the tail finished. All will be final sanded prior to covering.

Gary
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Old 12-27-2004, 04:57 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

great initiative! I'll Subscribe!
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Old 12-27-2004, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Cool Gary! Keep us posted---

Still muddy up there?
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

What is it your smearing all over the back end of that thing. I am using NHP Micro Fill but always looking for something better.
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:51 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

I'll bet Gary is using good ol' light weight spackle, and drywall seam tape also. you can't do better than light, smooth and strong. The plane looks real good! The little finishing touches to make the plane hold up better to the SJ 50 are cheap insurance.
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Old 12-28-2004, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

I'll bet Gary is using good ol' light weight spackle, and drywall seam tape also. you can't do better than light, smooth and strong. The plane looks real good! The little finishing touches to make the plane hold up better to the SJ 50 are cheap insurance.
Well, Ya got 1/2 of it right .... I use glass I bought at the local "roofing supplies". The glass is "thinner" than the drywall tape, and it also comes in different size widths. I bought the 12" wide roll, so I can trim to any width I need. I think I paid about $18 for a 500 foot roll. [X(]

I use thin and medium CA to glue it down, and then "fill" with "light weight" spackle. This allows for easier final sanding, and a nice smooooooooth finish!


Try it Snoop.... If you don't have it available where your at, let me know and I'll send ya some. (or anybody else)

Gary
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Ok,

Holes for fuel lines drilled just above motor mount . All was sealed with an alcohol/epoxy mix (30 min.) and a touch of black to darken it up a bit. The motor hides most of this area, so you don't need to make it too pretty, but the epoxy does help strengthen the firewall. There's no tri stock in back of it, so I also brushed some on the inside. Not much room in back, I may still add a couple small pieces for additional insurance.

I glued the servo rails in, with the elevator to the rear...and lower. Now, I'm not one to mount servo rails to balsa sheeting, so a little attention is needed in this area. I elected to simply CA them to the sides (as shown), and will make my own "saddles" for support. I'll take a pic if them when they're finished. These will be 30 min. epoxied in.

Gary
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Cute floor covering.[8D][sm=stupid.gif]
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Old 12-28-2004, 04:33 PM
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AirGar
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

More pics....

Servo rail supports epoxied in. Not pretty, but functional! I used 3/32" as the servos need to be off to the side.

Next was the aileron servo. I cut it out, only to find another layer of sheeting, After dremeling that out, I found it wasn't going to be deep enough (the next wood you come to is the outside sheeting). I decided to cut some small pieces of light ply, and epoxy them underneath the wing balsa sheeting. This will give servo screws something to bite to. Pics show how I did it. I drilled the hole so I could use my needlenose to position it (this part be dremeled out). I used 5 min epoxy for that. I'm also going to have to make a "tray" to epoxy on "top" to raise the servo....about 1/4". There should be no problem with clearance in the fuse, as it will be where the RX and battery are.
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Old 12-28-2004, 04:45 PM
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AirGar
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Next pic is for Vicman....

I do have to say.....I thought when I added this commercial carpet for my "toy" room, it would be cool. Well, let me tell ya 'bout this "cool" carpet....IT"S A FRIGGIN' PAIN IN THE ARSE

Drop something red, and where do ya think it will land? Huh? Do ya know? Right, right smack dab in the middle of a red star. Oh, was it yellow?.....then get on your hands and knees and start running your hands over every yellow star. Don't even think about dropping a small black screw....

Cute? uh...ok. Would I do it again? *@#% NO...
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Old 12-28-2004, 05:24 PM
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vicman
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Ha! I had just moved into my new home with 1900 sqft of basement that I had plans to set up as a machine/motorcycle shop (my hobby at the time). About two weeks before I was going to do the black and white checker pattern for the floor I was exposed to model airplanes. The provider of my children put her foot down and said "tile or airplane!" I must admit it took me a few hours to decide that one.
Now I have a workshop as big as most hobby shops but the floor is still plain cement. It does make for a great treasure hunt when I sweep.[sm=bananahead.gif]
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Old 12-28-2004, 11:22 PM
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AirGar
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Wing servo tray done. I didn't glue them, as I would rather cover the wing before hand. I'll install this after.

The other pic shows the ailerons. I had to make new ones. Now, Angel had marked the TE of the wing for cutting out the ailerons, but one was marked exactly 1" less than the other. Without checking, I cut them out. So, I'll take partial blame Angel. No big deal, I had the same size stock on the shelf. I used a harder balsa too. (new ones are the ones on top) See Angel....Both the same size!!

Next is the landing gear, setting up the tank, make the elevator and rudder linkage (and cut the exits), and then I think it's COVERIN' time. [X(]

Gary


Hey Vicman....1900 Sq Ft???? WOW, MUST BE NICE!!!!
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Old 12-29-2004, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Hey Airgar
Nice , I can't wait to see when it done.
Sorry about the Ali,.[X(] Yes I see
see ya later
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Old 01-05-2005, 11:33 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

AirGar
Heres a Rifle fuse, which is already to cover. Notice the filler block for the ele. and rud.
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Old 01-06-2005, 08:36 PM
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AirGar
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

More pics, Gents....

(Yeah, I slacked off a bit, over New Years )

I "filled" the front of the wing (dowel area) with epoxy (as Angel states) to offer support for the landing gear. This didn't work too well, as there must be another hole for the air to escape that's being replaced. I tried it his way, and couldn't get enough epoxy in the hole I made for "filling", before it started to set up. I ended up making a fill slot, and thinning and warming the 30 min first. This seemed to work MO' BETTER! And I didn't even cuss out Angel....well...not much. (Just kiddin ya Angel).

I also decided to recess the area the landing gear sets in, to have a cleaner, flush look. This also could help increase the top end speed due to less drag...though it may only be a 0000000000.1 MPH increase... HA HA C'mon now, I have to compensate for the additional drag of the actual landing gear somewhere!

BTW, Angel does NOT recommend you "hand toss" this. A dolly would be an option, if you'd rather not add landing gear. I bought "pylon" gear at my LHS, and am using a set of foamies I bought from Kangke (same wheels as my F3D....2").

Next is the "Y" linkage for the elevator. I'm not sure if I'm going to have a Buddy braze it, or figure out another way.....(I know.....the suspense is probably killin' ya'll)

Gary
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Old 01-06-2005, 09:48 PM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Lookin'good! That's a real clean, well thought out plane. Hey, I wonder if a high start would work to launch a speed plane? It wouldn't have to be set up as huge as the ones the glider guys use. The only drawback is a hook coming out of the belly. Or maybe you could go down to TORREY PINES and throw it at the ocean? I like the recessed gear, a speed plane with junk hanging out is .....well...... a plane with junk hanging out[:'(]!
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Old 01-06-2005, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Hello Airgar

What I did is, lay the wing down flat. Then pore the epoxy in. (It was about 2 mix cups.) But pore it in slowly so that the air escape from the same hole.
Once its pored in , Move the front wing down so that the epoxy run to the front leading edge,
Make sure that the dowel is already in. This always works for me . I hate cutting in to the wing....Good idea for the landing.(recess) I would do it too, but some of the guys use different landing gears, and size.

Its looking good...................

I will start on Henrik T Rifle on 1/10/05

Revv Bro #88
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Old 01-06-2005, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

CBP

That sound good if the tank sit behind the firewall. The tank sit on the CG, which is measured from the center tank to the glow plug of the eng. is 12 1/2". The Fuel line I use is,( exht. to tank) large fuel line, and bigger presure fitting. Then I use a reg. fuel line from the tank to carb. I had no problem with this set up. This Rifle will go vertical and it would not lean out. Just keep checking the plug. I have had glow plugs that lasted for months.

revv bro #88
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Old 01-06-2005, 10:49 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Hey Angel,

Your using large fuel tubing from exhaust to tank. and then medium from tank to carb?? Have you tried using all medium? I wonder if a bladder tank would help with fuel draw/pressure consistancy?

Hey Bob....ya there?? Would love to hear your thoughts....

Gary
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Old 01-07-2005, 01:52 AM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Airgar

Yes, and a next size up for the pressure fitting. I have great throttle response from low rpm to full open. I think the bladder tank on some eng, in the mid range will get to rich. It depends on your eng. set up. (Webra .50 spd) like i said before it run great with this set up.

I have a Webra 60 long stroke rear ex. When it run IT RUN GOOD. But with crank pressure and one way check valve mid range sucks. Now I have to work on the inner part of the slide carb. were the low in needle goes in . has anybody worked on this slide carb.

Bob.............Speak your mind

Angel
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Hi Gar....

yeah, a bubble-jett tank would be an outstanding way to go here, on a number of levels.

What Angel has come up with works well, I did something along those lines (oversized pressure line) as an experiment years ago, and it seemed to help in that situation.

Take a look on the jettengineering.com web site at the accessories / fuel tanks page. See if any of those dimensions would work well for you. From estimationg from your photos, you should be able to fit one of the 8oz tanks in there. The distance should not be an issue. We typically draw 6-10" on the QM40 planes when using the CG tank. Your location is not too far off.

Angel, the jett tanks are not really 'bladder' tanks known years ago for c/l speed and F-1 applications.

The fuel is not under pressure from the 'bag' itself... its little more than a plastic container. To use, you suck all of the air out of the tank bladder, then fill with fuel. Regular muffler pressure acts on the outside of the bladder, and applies pressure to the fuel, just as it does in a conventional fuel tank. The advantage is that vent/pressure air and fuel never meet. No chance of bubbles or fuel foam (always a risk with high rpm engines), typically more consistant fuel pressure (no leaning out) and you can run the engine to the very last drop of fuel without worrying about blowing a plug. In this way, an 8oz tank usually flys as long as a conventional 10oz tank.

You mentioned the Webra 60 LS - was a good pattern engine for a while. The webra carb needs serious tank pressure, there is no venturi in it at all. Usually pipe pressure was enough for the 60 speed, and the 60LS works well with pipe pressure too.... but the long stroke always seemed to run best with a pump. I recall a few guys running that engine with a perry pump with some very good success. Keep in mind, the dynamix carb is differnt than most carbs. You have to set the idle mixture perfectly - you cant leave it even a tad rich. There is an acclerator pump of sorts in the carb...when you open the carb... it squirts a bit of fuel to help with transition. If the low end is set rich, the engine will load up something terrible in midrange. Using direct crankcase pressure, as you noted, may be a bit difficult without some form of regulator in there.

Bob
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Bob,

Sounds like the tanks Dubb offers are replacements, and not in addtion to, correct? (I originally thought they were set up like a "hopper" tank in a DF) If so, they sound like a great option. My only concern would be the 12" length of fuel line to keep the tank at the CG. Do you think medium size line could still be utilized, or larger line to pressure the tank as Angel did?

I guess another option would be to install the tank a little closer to the motor. My Magnum was like that, and the flying characteristics as the fuel run out was not that noticeable.

Gary

edit> to correct some of my bad grammer....
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:39 PM
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Default RE: The "Rifle" thread.....

Yes, they are primary fuel tanks. Replaces a conventional tank.

They even come assembled with tubing pre-installed in them. Std/Med size. No need for larger tubing.

You should be ok with the distance. I run nearly 10" on my little Edge 540. Unless the tank in the plane is suppose to be toward the rear of the wing, it only looks like there is about 4-5" of fuselage between the wing LE and the firewall. Seems like the tank can be installed in that area from the photos.....

If possible, move the tank forward a bit more. The CG change will not be notible.

Due to the nature of these tanks, its ok to install them 'snug', with just enough foam/protection to prevent the tank from chaffing through or something. You can install it in any orientation too. Some folks like to install them backwards (stopper facing aft). No problem with that if it helps the install. Also, the tanks can be heat-formed a bit (heat gun) to help them fit if needed.
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