Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Whiplash Midairs!!!!

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Old 08-29-2002, 06:54 PM
  #1  
Mettler1
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

Be sure and ask DLK about it. It did not come away unscathed. I'm sure he will want to tell you all THE REST OF THE STORY!
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Old 08-29-2002, 11:35 PM
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

tell us the story
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Old 08-30-2002, 11:44 AM
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what happened?
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Old 08-30-2002, 06:59 PM
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

OK, when I get home. Going out with wife and couples for supper. Dave
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Old 08-31-2002, 01:05 AM
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Default Midair

Darn, after I get my WHIPLASH flying perfect, that means where I can handle it fine - I midair with a guest at our field. Ohhh it wasn't pretty. He was flying a 1/4 scale Cub. Covered in military blue of what service I don't know. I was trying different APC props trying to keep it on pipe - Jett Fire 50. This was the first time I didn't ask for a clear field, no one else flying.

I came across the field, rolled up in a loop and as I compleated the large loop there he was going about 1/3 throttle. I gave it down, not enough. We were about 20 feet elevation. My motor caught the Cubs large landing gear. The noise was a micro second, hard to describe. Whiplash went down in a lazy spin. My motor, tuned pipe and 2 pieces of motor mount were 100 - 150 feet away in direction of flight from WHIPLASH body. The Cub was 75 feet the other way of WHIPLASH body. One wing was pulverized, I mean small pieces. Rest was as bad as you could amagine, bigger small pieces. HIS flight battery was in the the area of my engine, in other words 150 to 200 feet from Cubs remains. Think about the force to "kick" it that far.

I had to hit him at a speed difference of 140 MPH plus. Lets not get into how fast it goes with a Jett Fire 50. We did that already!

Damage!! WHIPLASH Both motor mounts broken off. I glued them back with West System Epoxy. I plan to drill from the front of mounts into the body and install 4-40 threaded rod with West.

Body - Leading edge. About a 2" gash (hole, although carbon rods there but broken) with some surface splitting behind that. Looks like a easy fix to me.

Fins - Not good. Right fin is toast. Has to be replaced. Its there but shattered. I will check with Rick and Dan for a replacement fin set. I would use Dremel with carbide cutters to remove old fin plate - like a router. They might say no way. You can answer here if you like.

Rest of WHIPLASH is perfect. Everything works. Servos, battery and receiver.

My first midair by accident. Had a few flying RC Combat, those don't count. I have been flying RC for over 40 years.

The guys at the field were amazed at the condition of the WHIPLASH after the tremendous hit.

Well thats it. I called the guest last night and said I was sorry what happend. He was very understanding and said it was a pure accident. He was thinking about menbership in our club. I know - I hit him- I feel bad but at that speed you don't have time to look to far ahead. BTW the midair took place at least 250 feet away from flight line. Dave
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Old 08-31-2002, 01:30 AM
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Default midair

After reading your post I'm not at all surprised that the whiplash survived and the Cub didnt, as we have posted before, the whiplash is incredibly strong and light, we were planning on putting a 4'x 8' sheet of styrofoam at the end of our runway and flying a whiplash throgh it just for kicks...

We also wanted to try and hover a Diamond Dust and fly through that too.. : ) just kidding!!

send me an e mail with your address and just for your great post on a most unusual incident, we'll send you a fin set..

thanks for the news... post a pic of before and after if you can.. :stupid:
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Old 08-31-2002, 02:03 AM
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

so you taking me up on my foam sheet idea?
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Old 08-31-2002, 02:21 AM
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Default foam

We wanted to try a brick wall but figured that would be a bit much.. :stupid:
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Old 08-31-2002, 02:22 AM
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Default Zero Down

By the way, Zero, how many whiplashi do you have now? last count was what? 4??
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Old 08-31-2002, 09:59 AM
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

I have 2 the other 2 where for other club members. I'm flyin one with a os 46 df and the other is going to get it's test flight today with the jett fire 50.
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Old 08-31-2002, 11:25 AM
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

Ok.. I think it's time for a solid kevlar Whiplash with Titanium fins........

I can't wait till mine comes in!!!
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Old 08-31-2002, 04:02 PM
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

whiplash #2 jett fire 50
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Old 08-31-2002, 04:03 PM
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Old 08-31-2002, 04:04 PM
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

The jett fire 50 is one awesome engine!!!!
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Old 08-31-2002, 04:06 PM
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Default jett50

Looks fast!! nice job on the install
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Old 09-03-2002, 08:08 PM
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Default spotter

Sorry to chime in late but this incident points out the fact that having a caller/spotter at your side is almost mandatory. You cannot be looking ahead at these speeds. Either clear the sky or have help. I would have bought the man a new plane.
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Old 09-04-2002, 01:55 AM
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Default Aint that the truth

I'm a speed newbie, and put my first flights on my Shrike 15/ norvel 25BB this weekend. It's bumping 120+ so far, but it needs a pipe.

However on one of my last flights one of our newer pilots also had a trainer up on the box getting instruction. I was astounded at just how fast the little shrike would close on the trainer as I zipped around the field. Holy sheepdip batman! That thing is standing still! It was like a stationary object in the sky.

Lesson learned, very fast plane and crowded sky do NOT mix.
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Old 09-04-2002, 10:36 AM
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Default Whiplash Midairs!!!!

Jim,

Fast planes (without a spotter) and slow planes do not mix very well. Some of the most fun you will ever have is to get 4 or more 150 mph plus planes in the air at the same time. We do this all the time. The key is to fly the pattern and be aware of the other planes. Similar to driving on the highway, you get the occasional slow one you must avoid.

Mark M.
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Old 09-04-2002, 04:11 PM
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Default Whiplash Mid Air - Fix photos

Glued on motor mounts and then drilled 6" from front and with West Epoxy, inserted 4-40 threaded rod for a much better mechnical bond.
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Old 09-04-2002, 04:16 PM
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Default Whiplash Mid Air - Fix Photos

Leading edge - about 2" "wing ding". Using West Epoxy with lots of filler for a light, very strong filler. Photo doesn't show fix.
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Old 09-04-2002, 04:19 PM
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Default Whiplash Mid Air - Fix Photos

Back view of fin. Really needed to be replaced. AeroJet is sending me a new one - nice - great customer service!
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Old 09-04-2002, 04:46 PM
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Default Whiplash Mid Air - Fix Photos

West Epoxy System. This is what I use to build & fix most of my planes. Rick from AEROJET MODELS said they use it also. It has to be accuratley weighed. Thats what the digital powder scale is for. BTW the Waco factory (full size) is in our state. Our club had the big tour a few years ago. The wing which is all wood is glued with WEST - No screws, bolts or anything on most parts. Clamped wood to wood and thats it. FAA approved of course. It blew our minds!

Just a little comment on the mid air. I see it got a few responses. Our club has a rule - you shoot somebody down YOU PAY. Mid airs are a accident. The Cub and I were going the right direction just not the same speed - we have a counter clockwise rule. Like I posted before never had a collision in 40 years. Yes I like to fly fast stuff. I don't think a spotter could have saved us on this situation. We were a long ways away from flight line.

However I will most likely not fly WHIPLASH with someone else flying. Dave
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:17 PM
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Default spotter

"I don't think a spotter could have saved us on this situation. "

As long as the cub owner is OK with the outcome then there is no issue wrt this crash. However in general this situation is exactly where a spotter is needed. He would have known where the other plane was. It was only 20 off the ground? All he would have had to say was "stay high". Simple commands like "in" "out" "high" "low" is all that is needed to prevent close calls, especially when there is only one other plane involved. If several planes are up then it becomes a little more complicated. But there is no excuse for a mid air when only two planes are flying and the pilots have a spotter.
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Old 09-05-2002, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: spotter

Originally posted by jlong34016
"I don't think a spotter could have saved us on this situation. "

As long as the cub owner is OK with the outcome then there is no issue wrt this crash. However in general this situation is exactly where a spotter is needed. He would have known where the other plane was. It was only 20 off the ground? All he would have had to say was "stay high". Simple commands like "in" "out" "high" "low" is all that is needed to prevent close calls, especially when there is only one other plane involved. If several planes are up then it becomes a little more complicated. But there is no excuse for a mid air when only two planes are flying and the pilots have a spotter.
This is a little strange to me. I've belonged to several rc clubs over the years and never have seen spotters for every flyer on a general flying day. During Special Events, yes but not on a Thursday open flying day.

I've been involved in two mid airs in twenty years. Did not have a problem with either one because I understand "---- happens". When you have two or more airplanes in the air at the same time you have no idea what those other pilots are going to do and they don't know what you are going to do next.

You put your plane up with the others and you takes your chances. Same as everybody else. Not trying to be callous but that's the way it's been and understood in my experiences with the clubs I have belonged to. Don't like to see plane lost due to mid airs but it happens once in awhile. My $.02
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Old 09-05-2002, 02:17 AM
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Default mid-air

"When you have two or more airplanes in the air at the same time you have no idea what those other pilots are going to do and they don't know what you are going to do next. "

Sure for a typical "Sunday flier" no spotter is really needed. But when you have a high performance specialized plane like we are discussing in extreme speed prop planes you should go that extra step to ensure safety of people and their property. That cub flying at 1/3 throttle is fairly predictable where its going, and it ain't going anywhere fast. But if you are flying 175 mph you should have a spotter and you should communicate where you are going and what you are doing or you should be flying in a clear sky. To not do so is reckless and dangerous. This is a clear example: No midairs in 39 years of flying with I'm sure multiple planes in the sky, now a whiplash flying its 10th flight and ruin someones 1/4 scale baby; the only other plane in the sky. Thankfully this was 250 feet from flight line(parts flew 200 feet from an elevation of 20 feet?) and nobody was injured. Do the math, someone could have been killed. I can see these planes, or missiles, being banned from clubs. Safety first. Do everything you can to prevent accidents. My nelson powered whiplash will not fly with anyone else up in the air and i will have at least one spotter if not two always. Also i paid the extra 50 bucks for a throttle carb so i can fly it slower and safer. My plane and my piloting will be as safe as it can be. Accidents will happed but **** should not happen.
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