Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Sonic 500

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Old 02-04-2005, 06:41 PM
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freebird1
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Default Sonic 500

Hi all

I am building a Sonic 500. I would be very thankful for any advice from anyone that has built one. I am planing to have a Rossi 45 with Futaba gear.

Thanks
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Old 02-04-2005, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

I have not built one but I had a Scat-Cat which is VERY similar... The Rossi-45 is a tad heavy but a great performer-I would start with a 9x8 APC, and 5% nitro.

I am sure Super-Dave, Bob, and Dave N. will chime in here---
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Old 02-04-2005, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

It will be a good aircraft with the Rossi up front. We raced scat-cats with Rossi 40s up front for years. Good combination.

As noted, it will tend to come out noseheavy with the Rossi. Utilize a backplate type engine mount, and plan on installing the servos (maybe the battery too) behind the wing saddle.

Engine mount--- check out lcsperformance.com

Only negative I hear about it is the covering. The newer batch may be better... who knows.
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Old 02-04-2005, 09:22 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

bob27s, Who stated the covering was bad was right. I have found some places where the covering is not even over the balsa. I love the looks of it. I have a Viper and a predator. How do you think this one will fly compared to the Viper. I do not think it will be as fast or turn, but will it be stable at high speeds and how will it land? The Viper was a real suprise because it does not bleed off speed. The fire wall comes pre drilled for the mount included. I think I will try her first with the factor mount and later try to balance her better. I do plain on glassing the firewall too.
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Old 02-05-2005, 08:15 AM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

Speeds will be very close, the Viper has a more updated airfoil, and will be slightly faster, but most people won't be able to tell. It will come in slightly slower than the viper, and will probably be easier for you to land than the viper, but very similar.

You will be able to turn on a dime with a standard tail also, so don't worry about that. They were good planes when I use to fly them. They use to be ARC's that were built real nice and light so the covering wasn't an issue then. I haven't seen one in a few years.
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Old 02-05-2005, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

Thanks daven for the heads up.
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Old 02-05-2005, 10:04 AM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

The conventinal tail planes turn just as well as a V-tail. Your CG selection has more to do with turning radius and tracking qualities.

With the V-tail, you are somewhat 'required' to set the CG right on the money to get it to track and fly properly. The conventional tail aircraft...well.. sometimes you could set them up nose heavy and get away with it - Good for sport flying sometimes, not much good for racing.

My old scat-cat was good for a 1:16 at a race a just a few years ago. Considering the best I've ever turned was a 1:10 flat.... I would definately not consider it slow

The advantage one may see from a modern design comes more from the high-wing configuration and airfoil selection. (some aerodynamic reasons these will tend to be quicker and turn better, but I will not go into that now).

But as Dave noted, if you are just sport-speed-flying.... you will rarely if ever be able to notice a difference.
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Old 02-07-2005, 12:07 AM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

Thanks bob27s. Ever since I got into the hobby, some years ago I have loved speed. I do not care if a plane can knife edge or hover as long as it will do it at 100 +. I have become VP at my club and wish to have some excitement going on. Most of my past experinece has been on a open road or my fathers hay fields. That is the only place I could fly. Now, that I am a little older I found a local club that is about 30 miles away. worth the trip. I am reading on AMA about the pylon rules. The members at my club are getting the speed bug. Thank you all for all the help, as I try and bring a new exciteing aspect to my club.

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Old 02-07-2005, 08:38 AM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

Once upon a time there use to be a good deal of pylon racing in TN.

SEMPRA sport racing, some 428, and a good deal of "Webra 28" Q-500 racing too.

Doug Whitaker (designer of the 'original' low wing Viper) Greg and Tom Doe, Brad and Steve Clayton... and a handful of others were well known F1-QM-Q500 racers living in TN.

If you want a few suggestions on getting some club-level racing going, drop me an email.
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

Hi!
I have raced with China Clipper:s or it's other name Sonic 500 airplanes for many years in pylonracing here in Sweden and I do recommend that you get a lighter engine then the Rossi.45.
A much better engine for this model would be the MVVS 6,5cc Q-500 engine as it is much more powerful and much lighter.
But perhaps you already have the Rossi...??
8,75x7, 9x6, 9x7 and 9x6,5 APC is the props I used when I raced in Sport 40 pylon a couple of years ago.
Glow plug was Rossi 6 and fuel 80/20 ...but 5% nitro would work good too.

Regards!
Jan K
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Old 02-13-2005, 07:38 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

i flew mine with a rossi 45 and the wing dowels pulled out in flight doing some HARD yanking and banking luckily no one was hurt! and i still have and run that motor althought the crank was bent and i replaced it.
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Old 02-13-2005, 09:56 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

Hi and Thank you all for the great info! Sorry for the late post. I have been very busy.

I have decided to go with a super tigre G-51 that I have. It is liter and I have a macs black mine pipe for it as well. The ST fits a lot better too. It seem that ever thing is going to CG right on the money. I have all ways used 10x6 or 10x7 APC on these engines. I have an APC 9x8 on her now. Is this a good choice? I am hopeing to see 100+. I hope to have her ready by this Friday. I will post my maiden flight. I have a few quick questions.

Is the APC 9x8 a good prop choice?

She is CG at 3" The manual calls for 2.5 to 3". Is this a good point to start? She is alittle tail heavy from the manual suggested CG range.

Is there any flight habbits of this plane that I may need to know before I take off.

Again thanks for the super info.

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Old 02-13-2005, 11:29 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

They are pretty forgiving in regards to C.g.

As to props, I would probably start with a 10x6 or 10x7 untill you get it trimmed out how you like. A 9x8 is fine, just will make ground handling a little worse, and give you more speed on your test flight.
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Old 02-14-2005, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

You are on the right track. Follow Daves advice there.

Nothing special on flight performance. Maybe take off the first time about 1/2 throttle. Hold a tad of right rudder, and a little up elevator. Thats about it.

The 3" CG is ok. Thats about the aft limit for that plane, but it grooves nicely there.... it will track just fine. If you are at all worried, put a heavy hub prop nut on it for the first flight.

The GS40 combination for 424 was generally good for the high 1:20s/low 30s on the race course. You should be a bit better than that with the .51, which means your 100 mph target is practicle.

Experiment with the props after you get the plane trimmed. The 8.75x8W may provide you with the best performance when you get to that point.
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Old 02-14-2005, 10:49 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

Thanks for the heads up. I whould feel a little better with her at the nose. I may even switch the props for her first flight. I will keep you all posted.

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Old 02-21-2005, 08:07 PM
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Default RE: Sonic 500

Hi all

Sorry for the late post. I flew my sonic this weekend. I CGed her at 2 3/4 form the leading edge. I LOVED IT!!!! Not real speeded, but no means slow. She runs around 100 MPH.She will fly slow or fast. The torque and the little rudder I had programmed in made her take a hard turn to the left. This is the side of our runway bumpy and could cause damage. I gunned her and took off in less than 10'. I have an 9x8 APC on her, but I am not getting the RPMs. I was getting around 15,500. I think I will try a 10x6 APC. I love this plane. She will run fast, slow, loops, and rolls. This is all I can say about the sonic 500 for now. My muffler screws vibrated loose and believe it or not the super tigre 51 came in running at an idle with the pipe hanging by the tube.

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