Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

How about a contest?

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Old 09-23-2002, 08:55 PM
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PAINLESS
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Default How about a contest?

If for nothing else than bragging rights.

Two simple rules:
1. single propeller driven aircraft
2. must use glow fuel

any engine and airframe combination.

Top speed must be verified by radar and a photo posted, preferably with a police officer holding the radar gun. A photo of the plane and some specs would be good too.

We could pick a date as the deadline for all submissions.

What do you think?
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Old 09-23-2002, 10:24 PM
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Glorfindel
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Default How about a contest?

Looks fun but some people will have hard time to find police gun radar and that take the good one. This week end a friend of mine came to our field on my demand. but the 'standard' gun that he came with was 'peaked' at 200km/h. he will be back in a couple of weeks with the laser one.

I see so much 'hyp' here about speed of plane and frankly some people will be desapointed with the 'true' speed of their arplanes.

For myself i have a good comparaison. On guys at my field club was clocked at 326km/h with his DF Panthere. And this week end when i tried for the first time my DD-Jett Q500 combo i see in a minute that i will not be as fast as him and by a good margin. i dont need a radar gun to comfirm it. I'm about 170-180mph not at 204mph like the Panthere was.
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Old 09-23-2002, 11:35 PM
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roywiglesworth
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Default How about a contest?

if you want to get precise throw the radar gun away they're junk
do it the way the pros do it go mark off 500 ft. and get a stop
watch. you won't see a radar gun down at the drag strip but you'll see a watch.
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Old 09-24-2002, 12:01 AM
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Glorfindel
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Default How about a contest?

Sorry but i think the human factor in your methode should make it kind of imprecise...Police radar gun are precise unit within +-2mph or so....We dont see radar gun neer field 'cause a good one cost about 1000$.....watch and paint mark 20 bucks..
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Old 09-24-2002, 12:20 AM
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Default How about a contest?

We have had the local police stop by and radar our combat planes. Their guns are more sensetive than the under $100 versions. We have tried a cheap one or two and they can't seem to pick up the small planes.

The only reason I mentioned the police, or sherriff or state cop for that matter, was to get an objective third party involved. Might eliminate some creative cheating.

I would agree that most planes probably go slower than what we think they are doing.

Last time I was at a drag strip they where using electronic timing, light beams and reflectors.

Anyway, do you all think its possible?
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:19 AM
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Default Radar vs tracking........

I have mentioned this before in this forum, but the best RC speed contests I ever saw were run here in the MidSouth several years ago. The contests were run by the Memphis Propbusters (my club) and the Whitehaven Taildraggers.

We did not use radar guns. Instead, we used a system in which there were two tripod mounted precision calibrated tracking arms. The tracking arms triggered a stopwatch which recorded the time. Of course, the setup was run over a 'closed' course. You could dive as much as you wanted before the 'trap', but your run through the trap had to be level, and judges were there to make sure

I think the idea of a 'proxy by internet' RC speed contest is a great idea, but you might want to consider having different classes by different displacements just like the Ukie guys do it.
(personally, I have 1/2A, 15size, and 40size planes that are well suited, and I imagine that other people have a wide variety of planes as well)

If you get any prizes for the contest, I think you better find a more consistent way to measure the speed than different Radar guns all around the country. The Speed trap idea would be much more accurate, but also difficult to make consistent all around the country/world.

Matchlessaero- AKA former Tortoise Award Winner at the 1990 Memphis Propbusters "Mr. Speed" Competition

Go Fast.......Turn ... Oops, don't turn, Just Go Fast
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:29 AM
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Default My $.02...

I think that people just obsess with the number...I just like the experience. I can measure my RPM, and my prop, and I guess that's good enough for me.

And the chances of me getting a policeman to park on the runway while I dive at him are mega slim. :stupid:

And I don't see how a person standing between 2 points 500 ft apart could accurately tell when the plane passed each point..even if you had a guy wave a flag at each end I don't know....seems like a pretty good margin for error.


So I guess you'll have to have the contest without me....seems like quite a bit of hassle over nothing more than ego and bragging rights. Now if money was involved
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:52 AM
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Default How about a contest?

I live in a small town, and we as a club approached our loal PD and asked if they could radar some of our planes at a contest, they agreed. Granted, in a small town they are not that busy. The next time we asked they just lent us the gun. All you have to do is ask, whats the worst they can say, "no".

Someone in your club or a friend of a friend must know a cop. Offer them lunch or something.

The only other rule I would add is no diving to gain speed.

As far as classes, I think to keep it simple at first we should not divide things up. Just the fastest prop driven plane on glow fuel. Maybe RCU could donate a prize, but in my experience the quickest way to ruin an event is to offer a prize, especially money.

I am suprised the AMA doesn't have an event like this in their rule book, they have r/c pylon and control line speed and racing already.

Whether this ends up being a contest or not, I'd like to see some radar speeds posted here just to see what some of the plane/engine combos are capable of. To be honest I think we have reached the peak of performance from the currently available engines.
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Old 09-24-2002, 03:14 AM
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Default How about a contest?

The stop watch over a measured distance would work if you had 3 watches and averaged the time.
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Old 09-24-2002, 01:12 PM
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Default I'm in

I would be very interesting to see what setups perform and what the cost is. Is it really worth it to risk a 400 dollar nelson when an mvvs might do almost as well? I would like to see setups(engine,prop,pipe),tach rpms,total estimated value, and radar speeds. Also how much work is involved in getting it to run properly. With my ys its set it and forget it tuning. With my jett fires i resorted to inflight mixture. The nelson will fly this weekend if the hurricane doesnt rain me out. I'll post my data.
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Old 09-24-2002, 06:11 PM
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Default How about a contest?

ever though of using a GPS device?

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Old 09-24-2002, 07:35 PM
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Default gps

gps has been discussed and is not a viable option.bob forienze has a device for remote display onboard air speed indicator that will be available soon.
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Old 09-24-2002, 08:46 PM
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Default How about a contest?

heres a better idea, everyone put their knowledge and power together and make a superfast plane. i guess the fastest would be turbine. i dunno if ducted fan is faster than prop though.
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Old 09-24-2002, 10:24 PM
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Default Good idea...

But this is the Prop Plane forum..I'm sure the jet jockeys would be more than willing to listen to any ideas you might have.

Although I'm not sure a "contest" between people not at the same event could ever produce any meaningful results, I do think that the $$/MPH figures would be a surprise to many.
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Old 09-25-2002, 12:28 AM
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BruceDana
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Default How about a contest?

Here's a destructive idea...

1) Weigh the aircraft before flight
2) Find an object that will displace when hit with your airplane
3) Weigh that object (the target)
4) Execute the Kamakazi mission
5) Measure the displacement of the target after impact
6) calculate the engery to displace the target the measured distance of displacement
7) calculate the velocity of the aircraft at impact

LOL!
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Old 09-25-2002, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: gps

Originally posted by jlong34016
gps has been discussed and is not a viable option.bob forienze has a device for remote display onboard air speed indicator that will be available soon.
No they work fine, MEC has measured a Bandit to 304 MPH and JetCAT has a GPS module that we use as a speed limiter with the onboard computer.
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Old 09-25-2002, 02:08 AM
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Default gps

gps was discussed here before and the accuracy was determined to be unacceptable. Depends on number of satellites used, interval of data points, ect. Was the 304 verified by another method? How accurate is the positioning? If its sensitivity is only within 20 feet then you have 10% error. I dont claim to be an expert. I dont own a jetcat turbine that has this function built in. But with the short time these planes are traveling at these speeds i question the accuracy.
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Old 09-25-2002, 11:54 AM
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Default How about a contest?

GPS:
accuracy is not an issue at all. you can put it on your bicycle, or in your car or whereever you want, it will display the correct speed.
it safes the max speed. but from time to time you will find that the speed displayed cannot be a correct value.
so the only thing you have to do, is to do several runs and to eliminate the slowest and fastest readings (if necessary!!)

many pilots in the full size flying scene use these devices. so figure out by your own, if they are accurate enough.

however disadvantages are the costs, weight and size.

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Old 09-25-2002, 05:19 PM
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Default gps

Sounds like gps in not only inaccurate but inprecise as well. Throw out any value that does seem right? Voodoo. Full size planes travel at the same velosity for hundreds of miles and i find no problem with gps in that application. But an rc plane may travel at constant velosity for a few seconds, especially at 300+ mph.
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Old 09-25-2002, 05:58 PM
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Default How about a contest?

why do it the easy way, when there is a compicated way too

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Old 09-26-2002, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: gps

Originally posted by jlong34016
Sounds like gps in not only inaccurate but inprecise as well. Throw out any value that does seem right? Voodoo. Full size planes travel at the same velosity for hundreds of miles and i find no problem with gps in that application. But an rc plane may travel at constant velosity for a few seconds, especially at 300+ mph.
Think of ot this way, the GPS units operate properly while under several Gs of acceleration. Obviously the velocity is changing while under this acceleration (DeltaV/DeltaT). THey still work fine. Check the specs.

GPS is used to guide precision munitions now. They accelerate at 1 G
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Old 11-05-2002, 12:45 AM
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Default First Entry in the contest. 91MPH

I still think this is a neat idea, in fact, I thought it was so cool, that I will be the first to enter.......

I pushed my Caliente Unlimited half-A pylon racer through the traps at 91MPH as read from the Shelby County Sherrif's radar gun.

I know its only 91MPH, but keep in mind that this plane is powered by an .049 engine(turning around 26K on the ground) and only weighs 12 ounces......

for more check this thread in the half-A forum

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...89&forumid=161]
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Old 11-05-2002, 04:16 AM
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Default How about a contest?

Sorry but you will have to do it again. We need to see a photo of the radar gun to be official.

Police radar guns are calibrated several times a year, so using different guns in different parts of the country shouldn't be an issue.

I am really surprised the AMA doesn't have an event like this. Even if it started years ago with stop watches and progressed to radar or GPS. What would the AMA require to start an event like this? Would there have to be a SIG?

I wonder if the transponder system the R/C car racers use could be adapted some how?
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