Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Can sb recognize this racer ?

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Old 07-24-2005, 04:16 AM
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Strykaas
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Default Can sb recognize this racer ?

Someone to mention the real aircraft name/manufacturer ? This time I'm a bit lazy. Thx.

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Old 07-24-2005, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Cosmic Wind

Looks like an old Bridi kit. Is the fuse fiberglass? If it is, it more than likely is a Bridi.

Jeff
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Old 07-24-2005, 08:21 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

That is a model of a Cosmic Wind designed and built by Lockhead engineers and test pilots in 1946-47. #3, the most famous, is "Little Toni" flown initially by Tony LeVier.
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Old 07-24-2005, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Thank you !

Apparently Great PLanes sells such an ARF. It seems to have too much dihedral... The one posted above looks just better IMHO.


What are the typical speeds reachable with a good .90 sized engine on such an airframe ?
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Old 07-24-2005, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Depending on the state of tune of the engine (Jett w/ tuned muffler or sport type engine) you should be in the range of 100 to 125 mph in level flight.
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Old 07-24-2005, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

If you want to go faster! Make sure that the you build the stab strong enough. or the hole thing.
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Old 07-25-2005, 09:06 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Of note,

The full scale toni (cosmic wind) has a decent amount of dihedral. It does not affect speed for performance, just provides stability.

Photo of Ballerina and Little Toni

Bob

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Old 07-25-2005, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

ORIGINAL: bob27s
It does not affect speed for performance
Yes it does, but only by a very very small amount... Vertical lift provided by a wing with a decent amount of dihedral during level cruise flight is slightly lower than the SAME wing with zero dihedral. Thus, angle of attack will have to be higer on the dihedral wing, therefore increasing form drag . But we are talking small number I guess...

But as you've pointed out, dihedral creates roll stability.

Thanks for these pics ! Do they run Reno races BTW ?
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?


ORIGINAL: Strykaas



Yes it does, but only by a very very small amount... Vertical lift provided by a wing with a decent amount of dihedral during level cruise flight is slightly lower than the SAME wing with zero dihedral. Thus, angle of attack will have to be higer on the dihedral wing, therefore increasing form drag . But we are talking small number I guess...

But as you've pointed out, dihedral creates roll stability.

Thanks for these pics ! Do they run Reno races BTW ?
Drag caused by the wing generating lift is called "induced drag" I believe...
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:35 PM
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Drag caused by the wing generating lift is called "induced drag" I believe...
Wing generates form drag (due to its shape) and induced drag (due to lift indeed).
But in this case, we have to compare form drag :

case A : no dihedral, lift generated = aircraft weight
case B : dihedral, lift generated = aircraft weight

As a result, induced drag will be the same in both configurations.
However, given the higher angle of attack in case B, form drag is higher.
Don't you agree, Rudeboy ?
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

ORIGINAL: Strykaas

Thanks for these pics ! Do they run Reno races BTW ?
Very few Cosmic Winds are racing now, if any. Most are Cassutts or rules specific aircraft.

Here is a list of current F1 planes:
http://www.if1airracing.com/IF1Planes.shtml

Here are past birds (one is in the Smithsonian, can you find which one :
http://www.if1airracing.com/IF1PastPlanes.shtml

Don
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

you are straining at a gnat--
when raced -those suckers were never in level flight - always turning -or getting ready to turn - but if you like flat wings - have at it ---
I bet the color of the paint would have made more difference.
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

I love the green Balerina, is that for sale ?
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:44 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Dave,
I think you'd have to quit racing, if not flying completely, if green paint were to be discontinued..
GS
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Gary, it don't matter what color I paint it. It blue shifts when it comes at me and red shifts going away. This also changes the trim on the controls.
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Bob, What would happen if you painted the front of your planes blue, and the back red? As far as trim changing, maybe better servos?
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:45 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

The trims actually change around 500 parts in a billion is you do the math for a quickie.
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Old 07-27-2005, 02:10 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Bob, so you're saying we can go back to blaming your thumbs for erratic flying?
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:08 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

That would just about sum it up. I'm fine, plane's fine, radio's fine, but the thumbs suck.[]
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Old 07-27-2005, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Your probably right Gary, then again I haven't gone through a seriously bad drought like yourself. I'd probably switch colors if that were to happen also. I am going back to PPG for my green though, I just don't care for the epoxy greens that are available. I'll stick with klasskote for the clear,white, and black, but I'm back to mettallics.
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Old 07-27-2005, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Bob,
Actually I'd go along with you saying it's those short airplanes rather than the thumbs. [8D]

Dave,
Knock on wood, hopefully I'm through the carnage. Haven't put a scratch in any of my three airplanes with the new scheme, and have four wins, a second, a fourth, and three fast times in seven races with them. Wish I could've made the Nats, but oh well. I know the weather at the beach was nicer than Muncie

GS
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Old 07-27-2005, 07:52 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

OK Gary, I'll add two - four inches to the next one. That and a bit of novocaine injected into the right thumb should slow the pitch response. Also going to drop the V-tail and go to a flat piece of lumber for a change.
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Old 07-28-2005, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Come on Bob, you're a smart guy, you should know the v-tail's better than a piece of lumber for the tail. Are you going to come to either Phoenix race in the winter? Whatever happend to your Baby Bullet Q40 project you had about 10 years ago?
GS
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Old 07-28-2005, 12:35 AM
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Well, the servos used to fail more often than modern servos do, so I always liked the redundancy of two elevator servos in the V-tail. But the guys in Denver have been rough on the tails of my quickies, I’ve lost two that way in mid-airs when the tail got taken. The second time however, I saved the airplane by rolling inverted and killing the engine. The nose came up due to the pitching moment of the airfoil and it floated in with no damage.

The Baby Bullet Q40 prototype was lost to a bad battery (not enough padding) but I do have another framed up that is several inches longer. But it is too short to meet the rule change we did 5 or 6 years ago. So it sits waiting final assembly and paint. I’ll probably just put a run out Nelson in it and make a slow sport airplane out of it.

I think that I will go to Phoenix this winter, maybe twice. It’s always been one of the fastest places in the country to race, and Jim runs a tight race (if you overlook launching 4 airplanes on three frequencies).
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Old 07-29-2005, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: Can sb recognize this racer ?

Red Shift and Blue Shift--I love it! Actually, they do shift in relation to us but it is not perceptable to our eyes. The doppler of the motor is though.
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