Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

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Old 10-17-2002, 11:23 PM
  #1  
rc_steve
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

I'm getting ready to set up my control throws on my Whiplash, and I was wondering how much throw you guys are using? I know the instruction sheet says 5/16" up and down.
Do you have the elevator set to 5/16" and the ailerons set slightly higher?
How about Expo?
Thanks!
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Old 10-18-2002, 12:02 AM
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jlong34016
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Default whiplash throws

I have dual rates no expo. You need the 5/16 elevator for landing. The ailerons don't need nearly that much. Maybe 3/16 max and lower dual rate. I may try to use expo, never have used it yet but it looks like it may be time to do it. BTW my trim came out to two clicks right and two clicks down for hands off flying. First flight had hard roll left and with alot of aileron throw and trim off to the left it was corkscrewing all over the place. Good luck.
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Old 10-18-2002, 07:11 PM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Like jlong said you will need about the 5/16 on elevator. i dont use dual rate, i'm 25% expo on elevator. The aileron throw is about 2/3 of elevator with 40% expo.
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Old 10-18-2002, 07:14 PM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Sorry forgot to mention that i'm flying it with 0 trim at all...It will torque left at take off, it's normal and not so brutal...i have a video of my first take off (570ko) just email me if you wanna see it
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Old 10-18-2002, 08:29 PM
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rc_steve
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Rick...
What do you think? As far as Aileron % of elevator, and expo... what settings do you fly your Whiplash with?
Thanks!
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Old 10-19-2002, 02:27 PM
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Lee Cox
 
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Default Spider the man

Well I have flown Spider 4 or 5 times now...
With o.s 46 fx and 9x8 APC

Initial trims set 5/16th as per instructions, make sure C.G is spot on and control surfaces are straight and level.

Spider flew with vertualy no triming, maybe just a click down as going into the wind, apart from that spot on.

On the next few flights I have popped in dual rates. Speed flight rates down to about 3/16th, and slow landing still on 5/16th.

Expo is good to have at about 25-30% both ail and eli. This stops the crowd that will gather to see the first launch asking why your fingers are shaking!!
Expo gives a much smoother flight at higher speeds and lets you relax and enjoy a great plane.
Lee
I also have a video of the first launch and landing, email me and I'm happy to send
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Old 10-19-2002, 05:39 PM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

i wanna see it, send it to : claudeperron@videotron.ca

thx
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Old 10-19-2002, 07:28 PM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Here's the Whiplash, ready for tomorrow!
I'll let you guys know how it goes!
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Old 10-20-2002, 02:42 PM
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Default throws

Actually my whiplash takes off perfectly flat with no left pull or roll at all, and I'm flying a JETT 50 with an APC 9/7 , and it cooks..
throws should be as directed, but the faster you go, the less you need, I have my rates setup at approx 1/2" on high and somewhere near 1/4 on low, I use high on launch and once I'm in the air, I drop to low, otherwise the roll rate is about 6 rolls per second and it becomes very squirrely in flight especially in the turn, actually I could probably use less on the low than the setting I have because once it gets on step it doesnt take hardly any deflection at all to get a very quick response. Every pilot has their own preference but the recommended setting are as universal as we can get.
I recommend using the settings shown on the instruction sheet then tweek it in from there with your own preference, but bare in mind, this aint no CUB, its quick to respond at virtually any setting..
thanks
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Old 10-20-2002, 07:12 PM
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Default 9x7 prop

What rpm's are you running? Speed?
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Old 10-20-2002, 08:35 PM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Well, not such a good day.
The plane truely does rip! First flight was exciting on the toss. Nothing too bad, but the ailerons did need 4 or 5 clicks right for level flight. With the Jett 46 turning 16900 on the ground with the 9x7 I really didn't get the opportunity to go top speed on the first flight since I had my mind set on trimming. When I went full throttle, the carb lock nut vibrated loose, and the carb left the motor (held on by the push rod, I landed on the runway, although just barely since the elevator seems to loose almost all effectiveness once dead stick.
I locktited the nut before the next flight and had similar results with a deadstick that fell short of the runway. Broke the APC prop and did a triple cartwheel resulting in no plane damage (a testament to the strength of the airframe).
The lack of elevator response was a bit upsetting during deadstick landing (I had it set to 3/8" on high rate.
After that landing I put on a 10x6 prop to slow it down a bit and upped the elevator throws to 1/2" on high rate. Aileron rate was plenty, like Rick says at way less than 5/16".
The third flight launch was the best of all and since the plane was trimmed I thought I'd give it a little full throttle, motor setup was a bit of a problem and I ended up with a third deadstick. This one happened at the beginning of the runway at 120mph+ @ about 80 feet altitude but I figured with the speed the plane was travelling and my increased elevator throw I should be able to groove a wide turn and land upwind. Well, as soon as I rolled on edge and added elevator the plane just started to loose altitude and fell like a stone. The plane went in on the runway side of our gravel driveway with speed unknown. It does make quite a different sound when it hits terra firma than a balsa plane.
The motor broke off back at the rear mounting screw hole on one side and at the "firewall" on the other rail. Otherwise the plane is basically undamaged. We couldn't believe it.
I'm up for suggestions for a possible repair... Rick?
It was suggested that I carve out space for 2 hard wood motor mount rails and glass them in place.
Also suggested was drilling holes through the existing rails and into the fuse and pin it back in place.
Again, I'm unfamilliar with repairing a composite plane. HELP!
By the way, the plane was set up with brand new Hitec 645MG servos (107oz) on the elevons. It balanced out at the suggested mark with the Jett 46 at the back of the mount, and the battery in the rear of the compartment with the Hitec 555 mini receiver in front.

I will say though that the plane did get more than it's share of oohhhhs and ahhhhhhs in it's short life. Maybe it'll fly again!?
I can take a picture if you guys are interested.
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Old 10-20-2002, 09:19 PM
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Default indestructable "almost"

Lets see a Balsa Plane do that, sorry to hear about your mishap, send me some pics and Dan and I will look a what needs to be done to repair it, it can certainly be repaired, as far as deadsticks are concerned, it is a delta wing and looses lift fast if the angle of attack is too drastic. but in the future, turn fast and hard, then nose it down to get some airspeed, then flair, there is a trick to gliding deltas, but when you get it right they fly forever, just takes a little technique.
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Old 10-21-2002, 01:57 AM
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Default Sorry!

Hey Steve,
Bad news, really sorry, but at least it gives us Whiplash owners the confidence that they will survive a good battering!!
It sounds like the engine may have "leaned out" on each occasion, after the carb was fixed with loctite.

Try running the engine very rich (plenty of smoke) for the first few flights, yes it will be slower, but there is little chance of a dead stick, and it gets your confidence up and give chance to trim her for level flight.
Then set her as per engine instructions, Ie hot engine, full revs, close needle until she peaks, then back off 20-25Degrees, 3or4 clicks!
Are you sure the C.G was right?, when I cut the engine for landing, prop set to stop on horizontal axis, Spiderman just glides in very stable slight nose down, keeping plenty of speed, this is with high throws, 5/16th for landing and take off - plenty of control on elevator. Just as she is about to touch down, 12-18inches off runway, give a little up elevator, flare the front end and she lands like a good un!

At least she can be repaired, which is good news.
Lee
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Old 10-21-2002, 09:29 AM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Thanks for the info guys, I'll take some pics tonight after work and post them. The plane went in basically on the nose and left leading edge. NO ONE could believe it wan't totally destroyed.

As far as my CG goes... l had to have the Jett 46 at the back of the mounting rails with the battery at the far rear of the compartment. This is where it needed to be to balance. If anything I was 1/8-1/4" nose heavy. I balanced it on a 1" dowel rod on my workbench.

In hindsight I should have just kept the wing level and walked to get the plane after the deadstick. It just wouldn't turn. I got 90 degrees out of it and it was dropping all the way. Rick, you mentioned turning hard and fast... I really don't think I could have done it any faster and even with my increased throws it wouldn't do a 180 to get me on the runway.
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:38 AM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Steve,

Yes, nose heavy. I know the Diamond dust prefers the rearmost recommended CG. Nose heavy will take away from your ability to flair. The other option of a high speed deadstick (too lean by the way) is to gain as much height as possible, then you can pick a spot to land keeping the wing as flat as possible.

Mark M.
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Old 10-21-2002, 03:12 PM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Gaining as much altitude in a high speed dead stick is a great theory, but I couldn't even make a 180 degree turn without loosing all of my altitude and plowing into the ground, let alone climbing, then making a 180 turn.
I attribute my failure to a much too steep bank in my turn. Like Rick said, the delta wing looses lift fast in a high angle turn.
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Old 10-21-2002, 05:25 PM
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Default Whiplash Crash (Was Whiplash Control Throws)

Steve,

When you get the plane back in the air do a full throttle pass and cut the throttle to idle while pulling vertical. You will be amazed how high this plane will go. These planes are pretty clean and cut through the air well except when high bank turning or at a high angle of attack.

You mentioned you were already going 120mph, at 120 you should be able to do a complete 3/4 loop/roll to land. If you aren't traveling very fast, then just point the nose down and take the walk.

Mark M.
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Old 10-21-2002, 05:53 PM
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Default glide

I have noticed a big difference with a full/partial tank vs. empty tank. When empty i can glide forever, i actually cut engine on downwind leg at end of run and glide then turn and approach easily from one hundred feet up and several hundred feet out. But if i deadstick early and need to come in it glides like a rock. I just point it down and hope it comes down close to the runway. No way to turn without falling out of the sky.
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Old 10-21-2002, 10:16 PM
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Default Damage

Here's a few links (sorry having trouble posting thumbnails here) to the damage my whiplash sustained on Sunday.

http://www.lieblweb.com/RC/Misc/Whiplash_Nose.JPG
http://www.lieblweb.com/RC/Misc/Whiplash_Wrinkle.JPG
http://www.lieblweb.com/RC/Misc/Whiplash_Motor.JPG

Remember, the plane went in on it's nose and left leading edge. And I mean hard. No one could believe it wasn't a pile of high tech composite rubble. A true testament to Aerojet's rugged construction of this model.

I should also point out that I don't believe the problem I had with MY Whiplash is a problem in general. My delta wing inexperience was to blame for my crash, not the design of the plane. When I rolled it (deadstick) on edge and fed in the elevator to groove a turn in hopes of putting it on the runway, it fell from the sky like a hot knife through butter (since that's what it's shaped like)
I now know better and things will be different when I get it (or it's replacement) back in the air.
Thanks for the help guys!
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