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G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

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Old 08-21-2005, 10:56 AM
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phantom driver
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Default G&P Sales f-18 Hornet


Hello everyone,
I ordered an F-18 from Bill at G&P Sales last week. I will keep you updated on my progress as I start the kit. I invite anyone that is currently building
this jet , or has built it to post tips , or photos of your Hornet. Here is a photo of a G&P Hornet that belongs to RCU member Warbird 1.
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Old 08-21-2005, 07:23 PM
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HaveBlue
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

whats the spec's on this bird, phantom?, wing span, power plants etc, nice to see a Hornet, I have a hornet kit in the box , but its made by Juno R/C. I had hoped to get my workshop sorted out so I'd have room to build the hornet along side my AKM flanker..but it's just not a happening thing there, worst thing is I cant decided which one will get my fsr1.08 and which one will get the Jett 90l....even though yours is a different kit, I will be following this thread eagerly!!! good luck on the build hope it all goes well for ya

cheers
Roger
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Old 08-21-2005, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

Thanks for doing this! I had hopes of building one and I called Bill and he said he was too busy to sell me one at the time. Needless to say, my money went elsewhere. I cant wait to see how it builds. I am not upset with them or anything, everyone has bad days!
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Old 08-22-2005, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

Hey guys, Here are the specs and the web site. Besure and check out the customer photo section.

Wing span 54"
Fuselage length 68"
Weight 10 lbs
Vertical fin height 10-1/4"
Wing area 900 sq. in
Radio 5 channel

2 servos for the ailerons
1 servo for the nose wheel and rudders
1 servo for the retractabel landing gear
1 servo for the elevator
1 servo for the engine throttle



http://www.rcairplane.net/
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Old 08-22-2005, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

Have you thought about engine choice yet? I briefly considered this plane as I think it's about the best looking propjet available, and I understand it's one heck of a flyer.
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet


I currently have an O.S. FX 91 that I will use first. I have also had suggestions for a Rossi .91 and a Jett .91. I am not sure if these engines are better, or brand preference
of the flyer. My O.S. has always ran good and been dependable. I will look closer at the Jett .91 , because I think they produce more power .
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

I know of two of these F-18 kits flying with Jett 90L power. No photos though.

One in Mexico had a standard side exhaust set up. His comments were that the plane flew very well - very much like a ducted fan with regard to throttle/power/airspeed response.

The other one I recall had a FIRE 90L installed with a Weston pusher muffler/pipe installed. I can not seem to find my notes on that (I only got some sketchy info - and that was over a year ago). Im not sure how he pulled that off though. The firewall end of this does not look all that condusive to a RE type of muffler/pipe. But I guess anything is possible.

At toledo someone purchased a 90L noting he was going to use it in a G&P kit, but we have not heard back anything.

One suggestion though....
Dub has in the past made reverse-rotation versions of the the SJ-50 and other engines. What this buys you, is a greatly improved prop selection. You use regular tractor-type props. I believe he would make a SJ-90 reverse as well. There are so very few good pusher props available.

Bob
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet


Hello everyone,
Sorry for the delay, but I am still waiting on the Hornet kit to arrive. Bill is a very busy man .
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

Jett-90 is in a different class than an OS-91FX for both power and quality--- The Rossi while heavy, is also much more powerful than the 91FX
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

My $0.02 worth on engines. First, being a pusher, you need to determine how big a prop you can turn without a prop strike. My guess is 12" is the max, with an 11" giving some leeway. As Bob mentioned, pusher prop selection isn't very good. APC has an 11-7, Graupner has an 11-8, Zinger has a bigger selection, but I'm not their biggest fan. The other issue is whether you use a pump or not. Being a pusher, if you don't have a pump or pressure system, the fuel tank has to be right behind the engine. When you balance it, you would have to balance it with a full tank of fuel, otherwise you're tail heavy at takeoff. This most likely will require additional ballast on the nose, adding more weight to an already hefty plane. If you have a pumped or pressure system, you can put the tank on the CG, avoiding the issue of the fuel load affecting the balance. In my mind, the ideal motor would be a YS 60 from the '80s, it was meant to turn an 11-7 or -8 at high rpm. Problem is, it's been out of production for probably 15yrs, but they still show up on the big auction site now and then. You could also go with a YS 61 long stroke, it's not ideal, but I think it could still turn those props well. It's also out of production, but only about 7 yrs and there were alot more of them. Also, the various current production YS heli engines would work as they're meant to spin up in these RPM ranges, you would just need to get the parts from YSperformance to turn propellers, Dave Schadel can set you up. Other than the YS's, you're basically left with using a Cline regulator or Perry Pump on the conventional 2C engines. I personally think it's worth it to get the tank on the CG.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:29 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

Usually by installing a 2oz hopper tank right behind the firewall, and the main tank a bit forward, you can avoid the need for a pump or regulator. Same sorta setup has been used on the CBM F-16N and other pushers. Generally pretty effective.

A Jett SJ-90LX version with the 11x7 pusher would probably the the right way to go. That engine loves smaller props anyway.
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Old 09-07-2005, 08:45 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet



That is a great suggestion. I had a Greatplanes F-4 phantom that I set up with a hopper tank. Not because the main tank was too far away from the engine, but because
the hopper tank keeps a constant feed of fuel to the carb.. This is a must to avoid flame out on the engine during dives , inverted flight and other agressive flight. I plan to
fly like a Blue Angel pilot , so I will have a hopper tank for sure. I have often thought that the hopper tank is something that everyone flying sport and aerobatic aircraft
should use as insurance against the engine not getting fuel.
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Old 09-07-2005, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

Bob, what about a bladder type tank like a tetra? Although not technically presurrized, you typically can run the fuel lines quite a bit further and still get a good fuel draw. Not sure if you can get a 12 oz or bigger tetra, but I think Central Hobbies may carry them.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:52 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet





Here is a web site that I think everyone will find to be useful.




http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...ders/index.htm
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Old 09-09-2005, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

Bladder / bubble tank can work too. Although, on a longer distance run, the hopper tank tends to (for some reason) mitigate some of the pressure-head issues. The engine runs like the fuel is right at the firewall, instead of high or low relative to the engine (with nose up or down).

I know, there are fluid/pressure things here at work. But the hopper gives you 20 seconds or so before the nose-high starts to ritchen the engine a great deal, and allowed a bit more time for nose down.

Fan and helicopter guys have been using hoppers for years. I had one on my helicopter back in the 1980s... guys kept asking what it was
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Old 09-09-2005, 10:58 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

My .02 cents. Dont forget that the G90, 91fx, Rossi, Jett, Magnums etc all have only one thing in common and that is the size. Just because they are the same size does not mean they all have the same power. My G90s are great sport engines but can't come close to my Jett .90
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Old 09-12-2005, 08:34 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

I have one of these waiting to be built. My plan was to use a Webra speed 80 with a helicopter head for improved cooling. The pipe would run up through fuselage and exhaust dumped through a 90 degree bend out the bottom of the fuselage. Or should I rig a pipe like what is done with the Combat Models jets? Also, I was told that the front housing of the Webra could be turned 90 degrees allowing it to run backwards. Is this all that it needs, i.e., no issues with the timing ports? It would allow me more flexibility in choosing props. Thanks, Rick
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Old 09-15-2005, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet


I received an email from Bill at G&P Sales. He said that my F-18 was on the way and that I should have it by this Friday, 16 Sept. Bill is a very busy man an if anyone wants to
place an order expext it to take three to four weeks for delivery. Bill makes the kits as orders are placed and that takes a while to do. I can't wait to get started . I have been
told by fellow RC 'ers that the kits are very good in quality and go together fast.
I think that I am going to go with a Jett 90 engine after checking out their web site and having people tell me how powerful these engines are. It seams to be the engine of choice
for guys that want , or need high performance. The engines are not cheap, but performance never is.
One option available at Jett Engineering is to buy a Jett muffler and Jett carb. for other brands of engines to improve their performance. It's something to consider if one did'nt
want to buy a whole new engine.

Here is their web site address.



http://www.jettengineering.com/
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

hi I now this is off subject but I was wondering Im not so good with my hands when it comes to planes so do you no if there are rtr kits of those
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

Nope no ARF's... I wish there were

Cheers!
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Old 09-16-2005, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet


ORIGINAL: bob27s

Bladder / bubble tank can work too. Although, on a longer distance run, the hopper tank tends to (for some reason) mitigate some of the pressure-head issues. The engine runs like the fuel is right at the firewall, instead of high or low relative to the engine (with nose up or down).

I know, there are fluid/pressure things here at work. But the hopper gives you 20 seconds or so before the nose-high starts to ritchen the engine a great deal, and allowed a bit more time for nose down.

Fan and helicopter guys have been using hoppers for years. I had one on my helicopter back in the 1980s... guys kept asking what it was

I am in the process of building a model with a rear mounted engine..... is there any info around about how to set up a hopper tank for a rear mounted engine?

cheers

B.
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Old 09-18-2005, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

I built the G&P F-18.
Max prop diameter is 11 inches, trust me on this. Even with that, there is a wire skid to reduce prop strike.

I mounted the tank at the center of gravity, and used a cline regulator and larger fuel lines. This helped to minimize nose weight which had to be added.

I ran a Rossi 60, 5 port, with a reversed outlet tuned pipe, of sorts, custom built through Just Engines of England. The Rossi, on 10%, turned an APC 11-7 pusher at 14,500 on the ground and unloaded in the air.

The biggest problem I had, aside from the fact that this was way too much airplane for this pilot, was the negative angle of attack on the ground. With no prop blast over the elevator, I needed a 300 foot run on asphalt before it would rotate. When it rotates, it does so with a vengeance. Suddenly you see the planform, not the tail, and you must immediately give neutral or down elevator. Even then it climbed out at very high speed. This would not come off a grass field.

I built with the retracts and closing gear doors, and the geometry of this creates the negative angle of attack on the ground. I played with the gear bends and wheel diameter, but after three heart pounding flights, realized this was a young man's airplane.

The roll rate was incredible.

I built mine with functional rudders. With a long ground run, that was good. In the video, Bill's version takes off with a much shorter run.

The end of his video shows one being flown off grass. Bill explained that was an all balsa early version.

I believe Bill flew his with Webra 60s. That would be plenty of power and much lighter than the Rossi, which would reduce or eliminate nose weight.
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet

I got the F-18 this past Friday. I had a busy weekend , but i was able to look over the kit and watch the video.
The video is the VHS type and was made in 1992 according to the dates shown in some of the footage. I recommend
the video as a building aid, because the plans alone and small booklet just don't cover everything well enough.

I have been told that this plane must have a nose high angle to get air under the wings inorder to rotate. You
will see in the video that the planes have a high nose set up on the nose gear. A friend from New York , Ron,
also told me this over the week end.

Late Sunday night I cut out the gear doors. The pattern is scribed on the under belly as a guide. A word of caution here, be sure the door opening area is large enough
to allow access to mount the retracts. I had to cut one door opening larger then the area that had been scribed inorder to have clearance to drill holes for the retract.

I will post pictures of my progress soon.
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet


Here is another picture of Ron's Hornet coming in for landing.
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:33 AM
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Default RE: G&P Sales f-18 Hornet


ORIGINAL: f104g


I am in the process of building a model with a rear mounted engine..... is there any info around about how to set up a hopper tank for a rear mounted engine?

cheers

B.
A typical hopper tank setup in attached sketch.

Obviously, try to keep the main tank as far aft as practicle. Also, you can set up the stopper of the main tank pointing aft, you just have to configure the clunk inside of the tank to work properly. Make sure the pickup and vent tubes flow freely and do not get pinched by the tank wall when installed.

Key things here...... hopper should be small - 2oz or smaller is best. 4oz if needed, but no bigger. Hayes 2oz is pretty good. Try to position the hopper "vent" so it does not tend to trap any air. The hopper should be RIGHT behind the firewall, and properly padded (avoid puncture with bolts/screws obviously). Note that the orientation of the hopper is not critical - you can installed it sideways across the fuselage if you desire. The little tank stays full 90% of the time.

You fill the system as you would normally through the feed line to the carb. I do NOT recommend an additional fill line (3-tube system). As the small hopper overflows, it fills the larger tank. When running, fuel draw from the hopper is replaced from fuel flowing from the main tank through suction and muffler pressure.

Of note, this same system can also be used for tractor installations (conventional) for projects like some tractor configuration prop-jets.

Yes, it is not 100% ideal. But it works pretty well. Definately does the job.
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