Fiberglassing F20?
08-25-2005, 12:24 PM
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Fiberglassing F20?
This probably won't generate a lot of interest, but has anyone fiberglassed an F20 or thought of doing it? I have a DCF20 that is covered,but thinking of buying another (junorc.com) for a winter project. I'm guessing glassing would make the plane too heavy, but if there were ways during the building process to lighten the airframe, do you think it would work?
08-25-2005, 02:11 PM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
Although it may seem weird... I have seen GOOD glass guys prepare glass/paint pattern aircraft wings that weighed nearly the same as monokoted wings. Monokote is actually fairly heavy.
Sames went for some QM40 and Q-500 aircraft. Nice finish paint job, and no real weight penalty.
Use 3/4 oz cloth, Z-poxy or good finishing resin. Modern 2 part automotive finishes cover well and are fairly light.
As you noted, a little care and lots of sanding while building it will help.
I'd imagine with some care you could glass the F-20 with at worst a little more than a few ounces of added weight.
Sames went for some QM40 and Q-500 aircraft. Nice finish paint job, and no real weight penalty.
Use 3/4 oz cloth, Z-poxy or good finishing resin. Modern 2 part automotive finishes cover well and are fairly light.
As you noted, a little care and lots of sanding while building it will help.
I'd imagine with some care you could glass the F-20 with at worst a little more than a few ounces of added weight.
08-25-2005, 03:00 PM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
I guess I should have mentioned that I have never glassed an airplane before[&o] Probably not the best plane to learn on, unless glassing a wing center section counts
09-01-2005, 01:04 AM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
It can definitely be done with only a small weight penalty- I like to use .75oz. glass, Z-Poxy resin mixed with rubbing alcohol which will thin it a bit more, and give you a real long working time---Make sure you squeegee the excess resin off the surface after it has been applied- that is where the weight comes from... A Credit card works well-
Also, some folks use fast Zap to tack on the glass then work the large portions with the resin-
Check out the threads on the CBM F-16N, some real good glass tips and tutorials there--- I have only done the F-16N (Foam) and some smaller pieces on regular airplanes... I am far from expert but I would love to have a Patriot that is glassed so I don't have to worry about the freakin' covering all the time--
Keep us posted!
Also, some folks use fast Zap to tack on the glass then work the large portions with the resin-
Check out the threads on the CBM F-16N, some real good glass tips and tutorials there--- I have only done the F-16N (Foam) and some smaller pieces on regular airplanes... I am far from expert but I would love to have a Patriot that is glassed so I don't have to worry about the freakin' covering all the time--
Keep us posted!
09-18-2005, 10:48 AM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
I glassed my DC F-20, used .75oz glass and z-poxy finishing resin. worked well, the weight gain comes mostly from the paint. Not much weight gain from the glass at all. Over all the model has an outstanding finish. Wing loading is up. Approach to landing must be done at shallow angles or you will run out of elevator and plant it hard.
Important to remember when glassing to take off as much excess resin as possible.
I'll send you some pics.
Important to remember when glassing to take off as much excess resin as possible.
I'll send you some pics.
09-19-2005, 07:57 PM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
wow, looks great. Still not sure I'd want to tackle this plane for my 1st glass job though. How tough is it to glass a plane? I mean, how do you get the corners looking so smooth?
09-19-2005, 09:52 PM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
Believe it or not, this was my first glass job. I used this plane for a test bed on glassing.
With a very light glass like 0.75 oz, it goes down real nice and you won't believe how it goes around corners. Starting on the bottom first just as in using monokote. The technique I use was to lay the glass down and put the z-poxy on with a good brush(just enough to wet the glass in the center area of the piece. Then use a plastic squeegee to move the resin outward toward the edges. Keep squeegeeing the resin off until you have just the wet glass. If you do this correctly, you'll see no shinny areas of resin, and then it requires very little sanding (just enough sanding to rough up the glass for paint). With the tight weave of the light glass you really don't need to go over it again with resin to fill the weave. The first coat of paint will do that.
Just remember to prepare the surface just as you would using monokote. Try it out on a test piece first.
Another key to avoiding a mess is to have plenty of paper towels and alcohol to keep things clean as you go and wipe the excess resin off the squeegee.
The excess glass hanging over the edges will sand off very easy when it dries. Thinning the z-poxy with alcohol just a little will give you more time to work the resin.
Overlap of the glass is very hard to see since this glass is so thin. Here again, it requires very little sanding. In the end what makes the model look really nice is the clear coat. I used a primer, paint, then clear coat. That added some weight. If I were to do it again I would go with an automotive base coat - clear coat.
With my F-20, I am using a Super Tigre 60. I moved the firewall back and built up the nose using balsa instead of the fiberglass cowl they supplied. A jett 50 would really work nice without moving the firewall. I just didn't like the look of their cowl. It's a very fast plane and must be landed fast(due to the high wing loading from the extra weight that I added from the paint). It's not as fast as my DC F-18 but just as fun. I have four more DC F-18's to build, I will glass these, and will for sure use a Jett 90 in them.
Glassing is easier than Monokote and looks much better. For that matter I will probably never use Monokote again. Glassing is also a little more ding resistant. Try it, it's really worth it!
With a very light glass like 0.75 oz, it goes down real nice and you won't believe how it goes around corners. Starting on the bottom first just as in using monokote. The technique I use was to lay the glass down and put the z-poxy on with a good brush(just enough to wet the glass in the center area of the piece. Then use a plastic squeegee to move the resin outward toward the edges. Keep squeegeeing the resin off until you have just the wet glass. If you do this correctly, you'll see no shinny areas of resin, and then it requires very little sanding (just enough sanding to rough up the glass for paint). With the tight weave of the light glass you really don't need to go over it again with resin to fill the weave. The first coat of paint will do that.
Just remember to prepare the surface just as you would using monokote. Try it out on a test piece first.
Another key to avoiding a mess is to have plenty of paper towels and alcohol to keep things clean as you go and wipe the excess resin off the squeegee.
The excess glass hanging over the edges will sand off very easy when it dries. Thinning the z-poxy with alcohol just a little will give you more time to work the resin.
Overlap of the glass is very hard to see since this glass is so thin. Here again, it requires very little sanding. In the end what makes the model look really nice is the clear coat. I used a primer, paint, then clear coat. That added some weight. If I were to do it again I would go with an automotive base coat - clear coat.
With my F-20, I am using a Super Tigre 60. I moved the firewall back and built up the nose using balsa instead of the fiberglass cowl they supplied. A jett 50 would really work nice without moving the firewall. I just didn't like the look of their cowl. It's a very fast plane and must be landed fast(due to the high wing loading from the extra weight that I added from the paint). It's not as fast as my DC F-18 but just as fun. I have four more DC F-18's to build, I will glass these, and will for sure use a Jett 90 in them.
Glassing is easier than Monokote and looks much better. For that matter I will probably never use Monokote again. Glassing is also a little more ding resistant. Try it, it's really worth it!
09-20-2005, 07:24 PM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
Thanks for the info. Looks doable for me. What was the final weight of your F20? Mine comes in around 6lbs or so.
Forgot to ask, but how much does it cost to glass a plane like this compared to using covering?
Forgot to ask, but how much does it cost to glass a plane like this compared to using covering?
09-20-2005, 09:46 PM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
My F-20 is 8.5 lbs. I really have it stuffed with goodies though. Lights, air retracts, and the 60 size motor. The main contributor to the weight is the paint system I used. As stated before, the main objective on this project was to see how much work it took to get the finish I desired. As far as cost, I would have to guess that paint might run a little higher but not much. I can't remember how many rolls of Monokote it took for the F-18.. two or two and a half for a two color job. Glass and the Z-poxy are cheap. Many times your local body shop will shoot it for next to nothing just by using the base coat or clear that are leftover from a car they just shot. I already have a shoot lined up for a twin I'm just completing. I'll bring everything in ready to hang and they shoot it for me in the down draft booth. That costs me a case of beer. I'll paint the stripes and then they shoot the clear for maybe another case. Hope that answers you questions.
09-22-2005, 12:42 PM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
Ahhh... Beer, the universal currency!
Do you have any more pics of your glassed F-20? That first pic is just a teaser!
Looks good. I have a GP Patriot kit that I'm considering as a first time glass trial.
Thanks.
09-28-2005, 11:47 AM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
Damn! That's nice looking. Those pics are really making me consider building another and glassing the thing. I'm still a little concerned about the weight though. I'll have to weigh my covered f20 tonite and see where I am at. Since I don't consider myself an artist, if I were to glass, I'd really want a slick paintjob done and would be more than happy to pay someone to do it.
09-28-2005, 07:45 PM
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RE: Fiberglassing F20?
Here's a few more pics. I did the paint with a little help from a friend. My brother in-law did the clear. Don't look too close at the nose gear pic otherwise you'll see a run in the clear. oops. One too many beers between coats.. 
Oh well, it's on the bottom.
Also added pics of the mains. It's a fairly tight fit with the nose gear and with that in mind I put the throttle servo up in front of the nose gear to avoid the hassle of routing the push rod all the way to the nose.
Oh well, it's on the bottom.Also added pics of the mains. It's a fairly tight fit with the nose gear and with that in mind I put the throttle servo up in front of the nose gear to avoid the hassle of routing the push rod all the way to the nose.
