Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

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Old 09-08-2005, 06:17 PM
  #1  
Lomcevak Duck
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Default Age-old Question

When God put Adam in the Garden of Eden, he was the undisputed king of everything. Then Eve showed up and... well, we know how that went... But I digress. Eve had Cane and Able, and there arose a great dispute- and common sense should tell you the first question they had- WHO'S FASTER?

That is my question, too. I am going to build a fast plane. I mean a real speedster, and I want to know who is faster- a Q-500 or a prop jet, and which one, F-20 or Patriot?

Have at it my fellow Revvers!
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Old 09-08-2005, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

You may consider me biased. Given the available power options for each airframe, I will say the Q500 will always be faster than the Patriot and the F20. The Q500 is just so much lighter and has less drag.

That being said however, perhaps the Magnum would be faster than a Q500 in straight-line speed. I don't know, I've never seen a Magnum fly in person.

Also, you must remember that there are different flavors of Q500s. A Vortex, Shotgun, Bird of Prey, or Neme-Q will be faster than a Predator or Viper. The quality of those ARFs (predator & viper) are nowhere near the custom built jobs. You get what you pay for.
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Old 09-08-2005, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

John,

I've never seen one of them composite Q500 planes fly... but I'm pretty sure a good Magnum is faster (on the straight).
We fly woodies in Q500 over here... but a good woody is still a very fast plane. And the Magnum is considerably faster.

The one time I had my Magnum measured, it was doing close to 140 mph on a shot engine. It had thrown a part of one of the piston pin retainers and had three huge scratches running along the cilinder wall and piston. The engine had NO compression what so ever... it felt like there was no plug in it when you turned it over... impossible to hand start.
Needless to say, it was a lot faster on a healthy engine
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Old 09-08-2005, 09:51 PM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

A properly set-up lanier Predator (TT Pro-46, 9x7 or 8) is probably as fast if not faster than my Patriot/Jett-50 but my goal is not just speed- I like the looks of a prop-jet, retracts, long 4 point rolls etc.

I guess it depends on what your preferences are- as Rudeboy and js3 mentioned a quickee and f3D composite are a huge difference in performance and speed, same with the Magnum vs Patriot, the Mag is MUCH faster-

What gear do you have or want to run?
What price range you in?
What skill-set do you have?
You want L/G?
You like deltas or traditional?

If I had a Jett-50 and a couple metal gar servos I would choose the Whiplash or Diamond Dust- or a Magnum> Period
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Old 09-08-2005, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: Age-old Question


ORIGINAL: Rudeboy

John,

I've never seen one of them composite Q500 planes fly... but I'm pretty sure a good Magnum is faster (on the straight).
We fly woodies in Q500 over here... but a good woody is still a very fast plane. And the Magnum is considerably faster.
Rudeboy,

Yes, a good woody can be a very fast plane indeed. In fact, I believe the skill of the pilot is much more important than whether one has a composite plane or a wood one. It's just that I don't consider the Predator and Viper to be good woodies. I think they are good planes for the first attempts at pylon racing (or speed planes) but they are not at the same level as the planes I mentioned above.

I'll take your word for it about the Magnum. I've heard and read on these forums about how fast they are but I've never witnessed it first hand.
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Old 09-09-2005, 12:08 AM
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Default RE: Age-old Question


ORIGINAL: Razor-RCU
What gear do you have or want to run?
What price range you in?
What skill-set do you have?
You want L/G?
You like deltas or traditional?
I will most likely run with a Dubb Jett. I have never owned one, but I have heard sensational stories.
My pockets are not bottomless. I am a college student, so wood and foam are going to be much closer to my range than a custom built composite.
I believe that if it has wings I can fly it.
I would like landing gear, but if I couldn't incorporate retracts, I would be sorely tempted to yank em.
I have in fact toyed with the idea of hooking up a DD to a Jett FIRE .50 BSE

I have only seen one DD fly, and I'm not sure you could call it successfully. The owner was 14 and unfortunately had the throws set at max, and was way over his head. He ended up scaring everyone in the club flying through the pits and crashing it a hand full of times before it dissapeared. I have heard good things about this plane, but have been a bit cautious of it because his looked uncontrolable- even though it very well may have been the pilot.
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:15 AM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

I bought a Q500 to use as a trainer for my Dust. I got it used for less than $100 and it came with a set of those wafer thin wheels.....It's still in the corner waiting for me to cover the wing. I've flown my Dust a handful of times already. The Q500 will get done with a Jett 50 in the nose simply because I like having landing gear.

If you got for the DD get all the info you can off this forum and use it. I never use expo but I know if it wasn't for using it my DD would have been rekitted on it's maiden flight.
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Old 09-09-2005, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

Duck,

The best I have information (real radar gun data) for the Patriot .40 with a SJ-50 (ss muffler) engine, retracts, extreamly cleaned up, topped level flight speed just at 150 mph (two way average)

Tbe best PatXL so far has come in around 150 mph average too with a SJ-90XL

The DC-20 checked in around 140 mph tops.

Magnum with a Jett 50, (ss muffler) - I received a report of 185, but Im not entirely sure on that - but its realistic I guess.

A competitive AMA 428 class Q-500 aircraft typically flys 160mph or or better on course, and can top 175 in level flight after a dive entry.

My suggestion if you are on a budget..... really want to go fast .... and do not mind building a bit...
www.matneymodels.com try a Mad Dog Q-500. Not a 2005 all composite Q-500, more of 1996 vintage, but it is pleanty fast, not expensive, and will give you a final product that is a step above one of the ARF's available at this time. Easy to build, has an epoxy-glass fuselage. Comes as a basic kit with wing cores, a fuselage, and a set of plans/instructions. If you can sheet a foam wing, you can build this plane. For power, drop Jett an email jett2005@jettengineering.com and request the Hangar Sale list - include in the email a request for information on some of Dub's "Used" Q-500 engines.

DaveN on here use to have wood Seeker 500 kits (laser cut) available. He may chime in here... those are good aircraft as well.


If you do not mind not having wheels, try a Magnum. The USA distributor has them on sale for $99, and you can also buy a combo deal with a West 50 and pipe for about $350 http://www.westonusa.com/planes.htm

The Diamond Dust is a fun plane when properly set up. Loads of information in this forum on various examples of that aircraft and setup specs.

Bob
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Old 09-09-2005, 09:18 AM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

I took a peek at Matney's site, and spotted another aircraft as a candidate for a sport go-fast - the Zoomer "Animal 500", available with a 12% tapered wing. Looks pretty sharp in the photo and smells of speed potential with a decent motor. Where's the 9% wing?

Mike D.
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Old 09-09-2005, 09:36 AM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

The zoomer is another good plane. Its basically a Q-500 with an attitude. Was designed for an old event we flew called Animal-500. Basically modified Q-500 planes. Builds basically the same, except you have to install the firewall.
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Old 09-09-2005, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

I am running a batch of Seeker Fusealage Kits as we speak, but I need to place my final count quantity today. I only sell the wood for the Fuse.

Hardware, landing gear, and wing needs to be obtained on your own. Bill Vargas builds the wings (Sheeted 1 piece) with all the goodies inside (CF) and complete LE and TE for $50. My fuse kits are $40 each + $5 shipping

Honestly though, for sport use, for basically the same total price, your better off buying a Viper, Predator, or Sonic rather than build my Seeker. The airfoil I use is better suited to the speeds obtained with a Q500 Nelson or Jett (160-170 mph).

Heres a picture of the first one I built from the Laser cut kit. I have since slightly changed the tail, but it is essentially the same plane.
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Old 09-09-2005, 10:24 AM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

I built two of the older version GP Viper RTCs before they were discontinued (the low-wing version) and was pleased with their performance. I never raced and don't plan on it, I just like to go fast. For sport used on a Viper or something similar, would I be better off going with a Jett . 50 or his Q-500 engines? Would their be any way to shoe horn a FIRE on it? Also, I don't know much about QM 40 models, but they look pretty cool. Can anyone tell me more ie. speeds, flight characteristics, where to get them?

Thanks for all the great info guys.
May your spins be flat and your landing gear attached.
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Old 09-09-2005, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

The older LOW wing Vipers were garbage in my opinion. The new one is completely different, and quite a bit better. If you have no intention on racing, I would personally go with a Sport Jett. You can throttle it, and you will have a useable engine if you get tired of blasting holes through the sky.

Q40's are great, and I love flying them. They will go 180 MPH + with a Q40 engine, they fly very nice, but are a bit trickier to land. YOu can see the Pole Cat at www.bigbruceracing.com it is one of the fastest available right now, but with the midwing, can be a little tricky to fit everything inside. My avatar is a Vendetta Q40 from Lyle Larson, his website is :

http://www.angelfire.com/ok2/racewithme/lylepage.html

He also sells a nice Dago Red and Proud Bird also.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend a Q40 until you were extremely comfortable with a quickie with a high performance engine.
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Old 09-09-2005, 01:27 PM
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Default RE: Age-old Question

Agreed with Dave, the older ARF Vipers GP put out were a great diservice to Doug Whittacker (designer of the Viper - many were built from plans for years - very competitive in its day - even a NATS winner)

For sport use, if you go with Jett the SJ-50 is probably your best bet. You have a throttle, large array of props to chose from. For Q-500 type applications or on a Magnum you may want the SS or Race muffler - its an option when you purchase the engine. Turns Q-500 props better with it. Set up this way, the SJ-50 runs pretty much the same rpm as the Q500 .40 engine - just that you have a functioning carb, the engine idles well, and its less critical on the needle. Put on a 8.75x9W and hang on. And remember, you can throttle back ........ take off at half throttle .... makes life easy until you get the hang of it.

The Jett or Nelson Q-500 engines are wonderful machines. Not all that hard to set up, run very well. For sport you can back off a prop size and they will run flawlessly with little effort. Downside here, is they have no throttle - just an air-valve carb. Up side is you can occationally find use or older models of these engines for sale that are in great shape, just not 100% competitive for racing. For sport, the 95% engine will blow your doors off.

Skip the FIRE on a Q-500 or QM40. The long pipe is not worth it. Cost more too. The tuned muffler is all you will need.

The QM40 planes make real nice sport speed machines. Even with just a Thunder Tiger .46 up front! My old RJ QM40 is still flying - gave it to a kid in the club 2 years ago. ST46 in the nose. Pleanty fast for him. Matney has the AJ-2 and the Napier kits available. Inexpensive, and pleanty fast. Basic glass/wood/foam construction. Larson's planes as dave noted are very good. Im not sure if Lyle offers foam wing Dago kits still. Those were good values as well.

The QM40 planes do take some finess to land. The older ones (any of the glass/foam/balsa version) tended to land slower - some of these new composite birds have wings on them drive landing speeds up. Any of them will be quite fast. I agree with Dave on this though - get some experience with the speed with a Q-500 and you can try the QM40 later.

An example of a Larson dago red here - SJ50 engine for power. Uses either a 8.75x9W or a 8.8x9.25 prop clipped to 8" dia. Flys great. Also a photo of a typical Q-500 configured for sport use.

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