Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Speed on the cheap

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Old 10-29-2002, 09:14 PM
  #1  
FrankC29
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Default Speed on the cheap





If you've heard of Spad's, you may not equate them with speed, but you'd be passing up an oppurtunity to build a real speed demon for about $10 in materials, your radio gear, and a hot .36-.46 2-stroke. Not 200mph like the Magnums,DDusts,Whiplashes, etc., but over 100mph easy. It's called the Sickle, if you've seen a combat Gremlin they look a lot alike. You can find the plans here:

http://users.oldwiz.net/~ttong/drawi...ombatopen.html


and a video clip of it in action on my website here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~plasticwings/


The one in the clip is powered by a TT .36Pro, an awesome engine, but, I didn't have the right prop that day, a 10X4 instead of the 9.5X6 that I usually use, so add about 25mph to what you see. I haven't done it, but guys who put a .46 with a 9X8 or 9X9 prop go past 100mph without breaking a sweat. Not bad for $10 and 4-5 hours to build. If you're unfamiliar with Spad building techniques, go here .

A few guys have had trouble with the free plans. You need to download the zipped file, unzip it, and then you will have a .dxf file which you can view with a free cad program like DeltaCad or TurboCad, links to which are provided on the same site where the plans are located. Have fun!
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Old 10-29-2002, 09:56 PM
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FlooredCOBRA
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Default Speed on the cheap

As a matter of fact a guy at our club brought the exact plane out to our field last weekend. He said he spent like $7.00 on his. He used signs from a sign shop. It fly really well and looked like alot of fun. He mentioned that him and a buddy used streamers on theirs and went at it. A few of us are going to build some and do a little combat.
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Old 10-29-2002, 11:17 PM
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PAINLESS
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Default Speed on the cheap

Don't use a dark colored coroplast like black, brown, dark green or blue. The wing warps when left out in the sun. Been there done that.

If you can cut your own foam wings you can build one almost as cheap as the plastic ones. The foam versions fly so much better.
Not trying to start a huge debate, just my personal experience with the two.
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Old 10-29-2002, 11:36 PM
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FrankC29
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Default Speed on the cheap

You've flown a Sickle? How much is a foam cutter? A sickle weighs under 3 lbs, so thrust to weight ratios of over 2:1 are common. The performance is spectacular. The wing weighs slightly more than a foam wing, but I can make 10 of them in a few hours for $15-$20 in materials and I don't need to cut foam. As for dark colored coro, unless it's over 85 degress you have nothing to worry about. Over 85-90 degress and the coro will get soft if left in direct sun for awhile. It happened to me once, in 100 degree weather, after 30 min. Solution? If it's hot, don't leave it in direct sun. Good advice for any model.
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Old 10-30-2002, 01:40 AM
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PAINLESS
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Default Speed on the cheap

The Sickle is basically a copy of a Gremlin. I built a gremlin with a coro wing long before the Sickle was introduced. I actually kitted it and sold about 30 of them locally.

Granted, coro is cheap and quick to work with, but I can build a foam wing plane for less than $10 in two evenings. If you could fly a Sickle and a foam wing gremlin back to back you would see foam flys better. My Gremlin with a 25 bb Norvel was radared at 92 mph pulling a streamer, I can hold my plane vertically and let it go and it will climb straight up. I'd love to try one with a piped 40, maybe this winter.

The biggest expence of cutting foam is the power supply, but some use a 12v battery charger, $20 at Autozone?? You probably have one already.

Where I live its always over 85 in the summer.
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Old 10-30-2002, 01:50 AM
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FrankC29
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Default Speed on the cheap

Is this a weight issue, or are you saying that foam flies better, even if weight is the same? If so, you're suggesting foam has magical properties. If it is a weight issue, this is such an overpowered and light rocket as it is that the minor weight savings a foam wing has does not justify the extra expense and work of dealing with foam. It does have to be covered in some fashion doesn't it? Coro does not. Really I just wanted to suggest an interesting and cheap design to those who want something very fast and very agile. But of course, within two or three posts as usual, someone comes along to snub it somehow, and now the thread is meaningless. Goodbye.
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:06 AM
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PAINLESS
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Default Speed on the cheap

Like I said in my first post, I'm not trying to start a huge debate, just personal preference based on experience.
Foam flys better because the airfoil retains its shape. Look at your photo, especially the airfoil. Does that look very efficient?
Do you think that stays like that at 100 MPH?

For covering I use laminating film, $33 for a 1000 ft by 18" wide.

Sorry if I offended you.
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:15 AM
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rsieminski
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Default Speed on the cheap

FrankC29,
Who would fly one of those things, anyway? Plastic sign material....HA! I'll bet they don't fly at all, just pixie dust and mirrors. Next you'll tell us if you crash it, it'll just bounce back. And then you'll probably say you can build a complete wing in about 20 min, and finish the entire plane in under 2 hrs. Who would want a plane like that?
--Rick
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:28 AM
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Tattoo
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Default Speed on the cheap

Who would fly one of those things, anyway?
I would!!! Even though I had to clean my shorts out afterwards!!! To date it's the hottest plane I've ever flown!

And then you'll probably say you can build a complete wing in about 20 min
Easily...the whole airplane was flight ready easily less than two hours from starting the project.

I've never flown a Grimmie so I can't compare, but if they fly better than a Sickle I'd need heart medicine after the flight BTW, are you the same Painless that used to visit the old Spad message board? Long time no see!

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Old 10-30-2002, 02:42 AM
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PAINLESS
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Default Speed on the cheap

Tattoo,
Yep that's me.

Still flying a lot of combat just not with plastic planes. No offense.

One of the things that always bugged me about coro wings was the way the leading edge came out sharp which I believe made the planes very pitch sensitive.

I had sent a photo and plan to the SPAD site almost 2 years ago of a coro winged gremlin. I wanted to post it here but couldn't find it.

Was that your photo in the AMA rag with "Sassy"? Be honest!

Also congrats on all the great work you've done with "SPAD".
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:44 AM
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Default That was him!

Yep...
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:57 AM
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rsieminski
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Default Speed on the cheap

Tattoo,
That's the hottest sickle I've seen to date. I think he's got a point, mine has a gms .47 on the nose, spinning a 9x8 APC, at full throttle the whole plane looks like it takes on a different shape. Or maybe it's too much of a blur? All I know is, every time I'm flying at the field people usually ask me to fly it to show their buddies who've never seen it.
Spend 2 days or 2 weeks, on the wing or the whole plane? Who cares? I fly SPAD's exclusively now, and both the onlookers and myself are amazed at the performance. They all fly great, from the agile stik's to the fast sickle and dog-fighters, if put together correctly, same for balsa or foam. Anymore, I'm short on time. Less building = more flying. Durability = less repair time = more flying.
Take the plunge, try one out, you'll be surprised. Plans and everything you need to know:
www.spadtothebone.com
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Old 10-30-2002, 03:19 AM
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FlooredCOBRA
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Default Speed on the cheap

I like the plane and still am going to build one. I know theres the pros and cons but still want one. I am sure folks who made and flown them know that this is not the best optimal way for a sleek speed machine. But the fun in building something cheap and fast is fun in its own way. Who cares if it is not the best and most agile plane around, think we all know that. This is a hobby and everyone likes to tinker and most of all have fun. I seen them fly and there plenty fast for me for the buck, and if you wreck it who cares. Mostly thats the fun of it not being on pins and needles when flying it and just plain of having fun.

I know a while back a buddy of mine and I took a PT electric and put a .46 on it with a scat cat wing. Why? for the heck of it. to play around with it and have fun with something we could careless about if we wrecked it. But most of all it was fun.
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Old 10-30-2002, 04:23 AM
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Default Speed on the cheap

So how do I view the SICKLE.DXF file that shows how to build it? It unzips from the download plan link.
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Old 10-30-2002, 06:44 AM
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rchawaii
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Default Speed on the cheap

Although I don't have a sickle or gremlin to post, since I haven't built one YET!. I have built a Coro Stang, (2 in fact) a Mig7, a FNS and a couple other non-mentionables. Do they fly as good as "foam" you bet! Does the heat in Hawaii effect them? Heck ask the combat guys here who flys them and wins! So is foam better? I think it's all in the pilots perspective if you ask me! BTW, the sharp leading edges? Where have you been? Stop by, read some posts! You can make a round leading edge no problem you can use foam for ribs if you want to keep a "shape". Does BLACK get hotter than WHITE? yep!

I am curious why you think the airfoil shape will change at higher speeds, there is a SPAR IN THERE ya know!
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:12 PM
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Default Speed on the cheap

Don't have anything against coro, other than the fact I have to drive 100 miles one way to buy it and that place in Kansas takes forever to fill orders, like 3 to 4 weeks sometimes.

Like I said twice already, I wasn't trying to start a debate over coro vs foam. What ever floats your boat man.

Oh, and sharp leading edges on balsa or foam wings make a plane pitch sensitive too, it decreases the angle of attach where the wing starts to stall. It isn't something unique to a coro wing.
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Old 10-30-2002, 03:57 PM
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Default Speed on the cheap

I have built over 30 S.P.A.D.'s and it is the most enjoyable flying I do. I have Balsa and foam airplanes but for building time, price of materials, flight performance, and the "I could do that " interest that is generated from other R/C ers you just can't beat it.
-----
I like pitch sensitive, Turn and Burn.
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Old 10-31-2002, 01:51 PM
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Default Speed on the cheap

rsieminski
Which spad will do the best 3d
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Old 10-31-2002, 08:33 PM
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Default Speed on the cheap

Originally posted by fejetmech
rsieminski
Which spad will do the best 3d
Go have a look at my El Cheapo coro/foam fun fly in the fun flying forum!

Andrew
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Old 11-07-2002, 02:10 AM
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Default Best Coro plane for 3D IMHO

Spazzler, it is so cool. Barn door Ailerons and Stabs. Here's the W.S.
http://j***amily.org/rc_gallery/view...umName=album03

I put 2 servos in the wing, and made a pull pull rudder. I love it.
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Old 11-07-2002, 03:52 AM
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SSGSPEEDMAN
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Default Speed on the cheap

There is a good supply of coro with the elections going on. Use their signs !!
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Old 11-07-2002, 04:59 AM
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Default Speed on the cheap

There was a guy in Las Vegas who tried to make and sell planes like these, call Giant Ammo Rats..He used a foam core with coroplast covering...He had a booth at the QSAA in las Vegas and put a wing on the ground in front of the booth so people walked on it for three days, without damage...He used the coroplast for the square fuselage also, and held the pieces together with long drywall screws...Biggest problem was finding something to adhere the coroplast to the foam for the wing, and sticking the plywood to the stuff for the firewall.....It had a large wingspan, and mine used a G62 for power..Flew fine...We finally held the wing covering on with 4-40 screws and large flat washers...It' still up in the attic...It DID fly better with regular foam balsa covered wings.....He made some smaller versions, and made floats out of coroplast covered foam....They all worked well....
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Old 11-07-2002, 08:17 AM
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Default Speed on the cheap

Just remember one thing......coro.......foam....or balsa.......

IF IT AIN'T FUN..........IT AIN'T WORTH DOIN'!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-07-2002, 11:21 AM
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rchawaii
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Default Speed on the cheap

http://home.attbi.com/%7Ewestaero/Mig7.zip - Mig 7 Plans

Amen Brother!
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Old 11-07-2002, 02:14 PM
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Default Coro -vs- Foam Theory in Dynamics Statics

Let me interject some wisdom to all this mayhem.

First off, both wings will deform in high speed flight.
In all actuality, the foam wing on a Gremlin will flex and
bend more so than the corrogated wing of The Sickle with
a spar running through it. (dependent on spar material ofcourse)
However, the corrogated wing will allow for more deformation within the crust of the airfoil at high acceleration, but only a
negligible effect on the acceleration produced by the force system or on the reactions required to maintain equilibrium of the body according to Newton's second law. "Change in Motion is proportional to the moving force impressed and takes place in the direction of the straight line in which such force is impressed."

You see... It isn't about the flexing or movement of the wing.
All material can bend and flex. Even steel when in proportion with
an extreme velocity. Reaction is always equal and opposite to action.

There really has been only one valid point made through out
this whole thread. Even this point does not dip down into the
R.C. world unless you are running something in the area of 200 + mph. The point made about the air foil shape would then be critical. In an extremely fast instance (200+mph) the smooth round air foil would win the argument. Not in the R.C. world.
Not enough acceleration or extreme velocity to affect any pitch what so ever. If you are really flying these combat, you may even
want to sharpen these edges.

Now. Lets get back to flying.
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