first high speed prop plane
09-27-2005, 08:40 PM
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first high speed prop plane
hello everyone,I am at the point where i want to have a very fast prop jet .I am considering the patriot,patriot xl cermark f-16 and f-20 and cant figure which one would be the best to start with.my engine choices are i have a brand new 61 fx that i could use or i am willing to buy a jett .50 or .90 for the patriot xl.i have been reading all the threads and the cermark f-20 seems to have a lot of problems .i also fly mainly off a grass field and want to know about the landing gear charistics for both fixed and mechanical retracts ,also you guys out there have a ton of eperience so should i use my 61 fx in something and then on the second plane with alot of high speed flying under my belt go with the jet .9 in a bigger jet like the xl ,i know ultimitley I have to make the decision but your opinion will be greatley apprecieated .also a little info on me I started flying an alpha .60 trainer at the end of may then in june went to an ultrs stick 120 and now am flying a funtana 90 with a ys .110 i have seemed to have progressed really quick due to real flight g3 and one yaer heli experience maybe this info will help with the plane selection .
thanks so much you guys are awesome and really know your stuff
mark
thanks so much you guys are awesome and really know your stuff
mark
09-28-2005, 09:07 AM
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RE: first high speed prop plane
Hi Mark..... welcome 
Sounds like you have some decent flight experience. You will be ok there. Just take things slow. However, do not count on the simulator. They are great, very accurate these days, but there is no substitue for real air time.
Short answer on landing gear. For the most part, the retract installations (if done properly) are stronger than the block/wire fixed gear found in most planes. As long as the retracts are up to the task, you will have no issues on grass (I fly off grass 95% of the time). Use the WIRE struts on the landing gear - not oleo type scale struts. Wire has a spring loop, and they bend fore-aft as needed draggin in the grass. The oleo-looking struts move up and down. Great for going over bumps, but the grass drag will transfer 100% of the load up into the retract assembly. That can reduce the service life a bit. I recommend Spring Air and B&D . Robart air systems are good too.
As for using your .61 ..... you can use it. Many of us lived with the .61 being the biggest thing available for years However, the Cermark F-16 definately needs more engine .. and Patriot XL will fly ok with it, but again, it's a bit plane, and unless you add a tuned pipe or tuned muffler to the .61, its going to be marginal on power. The JunoRC F-18 flys ok on a .61, again, you really need a tuned exhaust on it to get it to move.
That Patriot 40 and 60 size are real good planes to start with. The Juno RC F-18 and F-20 are very good too. All are kits. If you have some building experience, they are excellent planes. If you can find kits of the old Great Planes F-15 and F-14, those are good kits too, and well documented for those with limited building experience, and they fly pretty well.
The AK Models kits for the SU-27 and Mig-29 are REAL nice. Both build similar to the Juno F-18
A suggestion - the JunoRC Tsunami .60 is perfect for your OS.61. It is a very quick pattern ship type model. With retracts in it, and a decent .61 it really moves. Building this, you get some kit building expereince, retract experience, and a fast plane with your existing engine. Then maybe while getting some flight experience on something that is fast, smooth, and not a 3D/Funfly type of plane, you can build one of the prop-jet models. Several other pattern type aircraft fit this type of approach too.
(Bob note - the ARF world may be conveninent, but it has really taken the "modeling" aspect out of this sport.... I think building and flying the aircraft should go together - there is more satisfaction there flying your own creation)
If you want to go ARF, Kangke and Sportsman Aviation F-20 sport jets are fairly good. No retracts as stock units - and hard to add them. There is also the Magnum - very fast, inexpensive ARF - no landing gear at all though. The Morris T-45 ARF is a very nice airplane. Probably as close as you can get to an ARF scale .40/.50 size prop-jet with retracts and such. Cost a bit, but again... its a good jet. And of course there is the Cermark F-16 - very nice ... needs some TLC in the setup per the threads on here.
If you look around, there are a few Patriot .40 ARF's to be found now and then in the market place and on auction sites. They tend to go for a few more $$$ than most. But, they are rare, and very saught after.
I hope this is helpful
Bob
Sounds like you have some decent flight experience. You will be ok there. Just take things slow. However, do not count on the simulator. They are great, very accurate these days, but there is no substitue for real air time.
Short answer on landing gear. For the most part, the retract installations (if done properly) are stronger than the block/wire fixed gear found in most planes. As long as the retracts are up to the task, you will have no issues on grass (I fly off grass 95% of the time). Use the WIRE struts on the landing gear - not oleo type scale struts. Wire has a spring loop, and they bend fore-aft as needed draggin in the grass. The oleo-looking struts move up and down. Great for going over bumps, but the grass drag will transfer 100% of the load up into the retract assembly. That can reduce the service life a bit. I recommend Spring Air and B&D . Robart air systems are good too.
As for using your .61 ..... you can use it. Many of us lived with the .61 being the biggest thing available for years
However, the Cermark F-16 definately needs more engine .. and Patriot XL will fly ok with it, but again, it's a bit plane, and unless you add a tuned pipe or tuned muffler to the .61, its going to be marginal on power. The JunoRC F-18 flys ok on a .61, again, you really need a tuned exhaust on it to get it to move.That Patriot 40 and 60 size are real good planes to start with. The Juno RC F-18 and F-20 are very good too. All are kits. If you have some building experience, they are excellent planes. If you can find kits of the old Great Planes F-15 and F-14, those are good kits too, and well documented for those with limited building experience, and they fly pretty well.
The AK Models kits for the SU-27 and Mig-29 are REAL nice. Both build similar to the Juno F-18
A suggestion - the JunoRC Tsunami .60 is perfect for your OS.61. It is a very quick pattern ship type model. With retracts in it, and a decent .61 it really moves. Building this, you get some kit building expereince, retract experience, and a fast plane with your existing engine. Then maybe while getting some flight experience on something that is fast, smooth, and not a 3D/Funfly type of plane, you can build one of the prop-jet models. Several other pattern type aircraft fit this type of approach too.
(Bob note - the ARF world may be conveninent, but it has really taken the "modeling" aspect out of this sport.... I think building and flying the aircraft should go together - there is more satisfaction there flying your own creation)
If you want to go ARF, Kangke and Sportsman Aviation F-20 sport jets are fairly good. No retracts as stock units - and hard to add them. There is also the Magnum - very fast, inexpensive ARF - no landing gear at all though. The Morris T-45 ARF is a very nice airplane. Probably as close as you can get to an ARF scale .40/.50 size prop-jet with retracts and such. Cost a bit, but again... its a good jet. And of course there is the Cermark F-16 - very nice ... needs some TLC in the setup per the threads on here.
If you look around, there are a few Patriot .40 ARF's to be found now and then in the market place and on auction sites. They tend to go for a few more $$$ than most. But, they are rare, and very saught after.
I hope this is helpful
Bob
09-28-2005, 05:43 PM
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RE: first high speed prop plane
BOB thanks for your reply is the patriot xl a kit or an arf and what does it use for landing gear also what size is it because i would like to put one of your 91 sized engines into it also would a 40 size patriot fly with a 61 fx in it ,thanks again
p.s. what flies better the patriot or cermark f-16
p.s. what flies better the patriot or cermark f-16
09-30-2005, 09:02 AM
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RE: first high speed prop plane
The patriot XL is a kit. It is designed for air retracts ( I think they show robarts on the plans, but any will work). Patriot .40 use to be offered as an ARF long ago, but they are hard to find these days.
Ummmmmm.... hard to compair the F-16 and the XL. Different type of planes. Both fly very well. The XL feels 'lighter' and flys more like a sport ship. The F-16 fly well too - just bleeds energy a bit in the turns - keep the speed up and its not a big deal.
Ummmmmm.... hard to compair the F-16 and the XL. Different type of planes. Both fly very well. The XL feels 'lighter' and flys more like a sport ship. The F-16 fly well too - just bleeds energy a bit in the turns - keep the speed up and its not a big deal.
