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  1. #701
    Cyclic Hardover's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    ORIGINAL: rcutdf

    My thoughts exactly

    I am just getting started on my own F-20 this week. I had a failed maiden on a CBM powered sloper last week, so now it's on to the next project.

    Been through this whole thread, and planning to apply all advice given. Jett 60lx impatiently waiting.

    I am wondering about the lite foamy tires that come with the kit, are they gonna handle a grass field ok? I like that they're so light though.

    This will be my quickest plane to date, and given the reviews of it being a tame airframe, I'm pretty comfortable and excited.

    Cheers,
    Dave

    You want to bring out the best in that thing, APC props. I run a 9/8 on a Jett 50 on my F20 and it is a screamer. Chuck the foam tires and buy Kavan. Hard plastic. This is a good advantage when on asphalt. It allows th eplane to slide sideays without wheelhopping when you have to stop short or abort a takeoff

    Anyone who will spend the time and the money on an F20 and installing a Jett, should go with retracts or it is all pointless and might as well throw a 46fx in it
    Retired Army Aviator - Where the heck have I been?

  2. #702
    Cyclic Hardover's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    ORIGINAL: _Tommy D

    I'm thinking a 10x8 APC with a Ultrathrust muffler. I'm waiting on the engine but will post figures when it arrives.

    Hint -try a 10/6 apc with the ultrathrust. 10/8 is too much. You need the rpms. It's comforting to see that nothing has changed. Listen. You're not going to have the perfect setup on the first flight and will be lucky if you get close around the 10th. If you want a speed typ plane, don't be in a sport type frame of mind.

    Pick a prop. Doesn't matter what I think but if it were me it would be an APC. Start with a 10/6. The key is to fly it this way for several flights. You can't keep changing stuff around every flight.

    Fly it for at least 5 flights, then when you make a change in props, it will be noticeable-either good or bad. Pitch is what gives you speed. Not sure about the 10/6, try a 10/7. I don't think you'll be happy with any 11. It's a trade off and it takes time to get the right combination.

    Your setup on these need to be reliable. The wingloading is very high and if the engine quits, it's coming down like a brick. Also never ever do a control crash in the weeds on any plane with retracts with the wheels still down. It will not "protect" the plane. it will ripp the ______ out of it. If you can get the wheels up and just belly land. If not, your wings wil be destroyed
    Retired Army Aviator - Where the heck have I been?

  3. #703

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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Cyclic,

    Great info!...
    Phil Green
    Saito Club # 658

  4. #704

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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Who makes a retract set for the F20 Tigershark??

  5. #705
    Cyclic Hardover's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    As far as I know there is no designated set I have a $20 set of basic Hobbico mechanicals on mine. Some I know have air. One other thing when building the mounts for the retracts is don't be shywith the epoxy and maybe some glass around the entire backside of the mounts. Bullet proof it. You don't want them busting out the topside of the wing on a hard landing.

    10 years ago I had a WM 40 size P51 with a G90 in it. What a plane. One day while i was going full speed, the battery failed and that damn thing wen a couple miles out into the desert. Took 2 hours to find that thing. Pieces all over the place but those retracts were still in the mounts
    Retired Army Aviator - Where the heck have I been?

  6. #706

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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Cyclic,
    Which Hobbico set of retracts fit and do ya have a way to show us how you installed them? I would love to build mine with retracts but have never put them in a plane before.

  7. #707
    Quikturn's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Cyclic,

    I'd be interested in seeing your installation as well. I have a set of Hobbico 3 gear mechanical retracts (HCAP4000) laying around and I thought of putting then in my F20. Glad to hear someone else already did it.
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  8. #708
    vicman's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Still waiting
    A guy who used to live on this site and now is rarely here due to the "upgrade".
    Most likely fading away till the My Forums is fixed. Too bad.

  9. #709
    _Tommy D's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?


    ORIGINAL: Cyclic Hardover

    As far as I know there is no designated set I have a $20 set of basic Hobbico mechanicals on mine.
    Agreed photos as well!

    Bump for a dead thread!

    Tommy D
    http://tommydsblog.blogspot.com/

  10. #710

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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    C'mon Cyclic...show us how ya did it so we can all have retracts and really make this Tigershark scream thru the air!!!!!!

  11. #711
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    All talk
    A guy who used to live on this site and now is rarely here due to the "upgrade".
    Most likely fading away till the My Forums is fixed. Too bad.

  12. #712
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Well, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out, albeit a fall/winter project now that flying season is here.

    For the mains, use light ply to beef up the ajoining ribs and get strength from the spars. Spruce rails to mount the retracts onto. A retract servo on the wing.

    For the nose gear, I would mount it so it retracts forward (would have to check into that). Std (NG retract) servo would be mounted as far aft as possible. Linkage from rudder servo would provide steering.

    My F-20 is such a sweet flying airplane. I love it. My problem with it is that it's not fast enough for me now. I want to upgrade the 46FX I have in it now to either a Rossi 46RAL or an Irvine 53 both of which are laying around doing nothing right now.
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  13. #713

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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?


    [quote]ORIGINAL: Quikturn

    Well, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out...

    It is for me...someone who has never put retracts in a model airplane before...and I'm a licensed aircraft mechanic! I'm not one to just stick something into my planes when there is so much money involved...I truly would like to know what I'm doing!!!!!

  14. #714
    vicman's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    QT,
    I just ribbing CH so don't be too hard on him.
    I've looked at doing the same thing for a few years and always come up with the same problem of needing the nose leg too long in order to clear the prop and stow away cleanly. The nose gear on these planes are a bit fragile IMO anyway. I'll be interested to see what you come up with.
    Go with the Rossi[8D]
    A guy who used to live on this site and now is rarely here due to the "upgrade".
    Most likely fading away till the My Forums is fixed. Too bad.

  15. #715
    Quikturn's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    I wasn't trying to rib anyone. I thought I was being helpful in providing an idea of how this could work. I appologize if any offense was taken.

    Perhaps cyclic is not responding because he had not documented or photographed his install.

    When I get home I'll take another look at the F20 to get some ideas. This is making me want to start on this sooner rather than later and I will document what I do here.

    Here is a link to the GP lear Jet instruction booklet for some ideas. Look at pages 13,15,16,23,26. Hope this helps. http://manuals.hobbico.com/gpm/gpma0439-manual.pdf

    Vicman, you're right the Rossi would be a better match for this airplane. Thanks. I'll use a 10x6 or 10x7 with it. Perhaps a flush mounted nose gear would provide the clearance you're looking for although that would leave some the nose wheel exposed when retracted.
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  16. #716
    Kmot's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    It would be possible to turn it into a tail dragger and then all you have to deal with is retracts in the wing.
    ~Tom~

  17. #717
    vicman's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Tom, you are a pervert![:'(]
    A guy who used to live on this site and now is rarely here due to the "upgrade".
    Most likely fading away till the My Forums is fixed. Too bad.

  18. #718
    Kmot's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    lol... yeah but think how 'clean' it would be.
    ~Tom~

  19. #719
    Quikturn's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?


    ORIGINAL: Kmot

    It would be possible to turn it into a tail dragger and then all you have to deal with is retracts in the wing.

    That's they do on the Ultra Sport. I fly the 3 gear retractable version on the flight simulator but in real life it's either 3 gear fixed or tail dragger retractable it seems.

    I think it would be un-f20 like to set it up as a tail dragger.
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  20. #720
    _Tommy D's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?


    [quote]ORIGINAL: Quikturn


    ORIGINAL: Kmot

    .

    I think it would be un-f20 like to set it up as a tail dragger.
    You could tell them it's a prototype!

    http://tommydsblog.blogspot.com/

  21. #721

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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    What ever became of Hardover's .90 powered clipped wing retract project?

    Never showed us any pics of the nose gear install!!

  22. #722
    Quikturn's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Bump.

    Hey guys,

    Sorry for the long delay, been flying more than building but now building season is here in the midwest.

    I tried to put the Rossi 46 on my F-20 but the Rossi case is larger than on the 46 FX engine. To avoid messing around with a new engine mount I opted to put the Irvine 53 on instead. The Irvine is a sweet running engine and I do notice a little more top end speed. Static wise, the Irvine turns an APC 10x8 prop at 12,600rpm peak (12,400 tuned) std muffler w/o baffle on 15% fuel. I may try a 10x7 or 10x6 next season.

    Now for the gear part. My nose gear measures about 4 in. from the bottom of the fuselage to the axle and 5 in. from the fuse to the tip of the tire. If the NG was mounted forward and retracted aft I think there would be an issue with the wheel hitting the fuel tank. If the gear was mounted aft and retracted forward, would there be a CG issue?

    I managed to snag a used set of spring airs with a firewall mount NG for about 1/3 the cost of new so I'd like to use those now instead of the mechanical gear. I'm also leaning toward having the NG retract forward like the real jet. I think that would look cool. Any thoughts or comments on this idea?

    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  23. #723
    Quikturn's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Well I suppose this thread is dead.

    I may start another when I get into the retract install on the F-20 if anyone is interested.
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  24. #724
    vicman's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    He's been fighting a variety of medical issues for a while. I've looked at it a ton of times and just decided it would be way too much of a hack job to offer any real benefit. I'd love to see what you come up with though.
    A guy who used to live on this site and now is rarely here due to the "upgrade".
    Most likely fading away till the My Forums is fixed. Too bad.

  25. #725
    Quikturn's Avatar
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    RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?

    Hardover is having medical issues?

    I think retracts in the wings would be fairly straight forward. The only issue there being wing thickness to house the retract units and the wheels.

    The nose gear would present a bigger challenge. I don't want to move the fuel tank and I don't think there is room for the nose wheel there upon retraction. I have a firewall mount sping air nose gear unit and was thinking mounting it on F3 and retracting it forward. Plenty of room for a nose wheel between F1 and F2.

    BTW, instead of using a steering servo I added a nyrod from the rudder servo to the steering horn to save some weight and help with the CG. Would do the same here but would need a bellcrank to make the steering linkage work on a reversed retract unit.

    Don't know how much benefit there is to having retracts on this airplane but it will look really cool!
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18


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