Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

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Old 10-06-2005, 09:13 AM
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fly-guy-ty
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Default wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

anybody have one of these? looks like fun with a Jett 25 or 30!! would love to try one of these, need to catch up with the other unfinished planes on my bench though, and sell a few! check this plane out at www.wildharerc.com/Products/Racer/racer.htm
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Old 10-07-2005, 11:25 AM
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rmenke
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer


Am jumping in here just to get on the thread. Have a much loved Jett 35 that thinks its a 45. Have heard good things about the LR-1, but am in the sticks and never have seen one fly, or flown one. Need a backup to my home brew "Yellow Jacket" that will survive my landings. Other than the Q-500, have yet to get my landings down as good as I wish.
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Old 10-07-2005, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

I have one, red-yellow, bought last april @ Toledo. Still have not put it together. I have a .25FX but need to order a Jett.35 tobuild it right!

bob # 105
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Old 10-08-2005, 01:23 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Here's my old thread in the Wildhare RC support forum:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_29...2Cracer/tm.htm

On my last flight with my glow powered LR-1, the engine threw a prop blade at around 18000 rpm. Got the plane down ok. Now that the firewall is off, I plan on making another firewall from 1/4" ply. But I can put the firewall where-ever it needs to be for ???engine.

I have a couple of Supertiger X.40 formula 1 engines that someone gave me, but I'd have to cut away the right cowl cheek to fit the rear exhaust pipe.

I think the Jett BSE 35 would be ideal for this airframe in terms of power and light weight.
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Old 10-08-2005, 09:36 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Sweet. I think I will have to get one. will be a good winter project once I finish buying everything I need to build the other unfinished planes. Just bought another whiplash and also have a DD still in the box. Would love to maybe find a used Jett 25 or 30 for the LR-1. Looks like a good quality plane for the money! Hats off to Wild Hare!
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Old 10-10-2005, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

There are a few of these out there flying with the Jett .30 and .35 engines. Folks tell me they are pleased with them.

Of note, do not use the standard blade APC props. I recommend the smaller size APC D-1 pylon props if you are using the BSE-35 on this. The 8.5x7 or 8.5x7.25 are perfect.
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Old 10-10-2005, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Bob,

I can also recommend NOT using the standard APC props. The blade that was thrown was an APC 8x8 cut down to 7x8. Even unworked props showed flex marks after just a few flights and the failed prop only had about 4 flights on it. I had some APC pylon props but the engine (OS .37SZH) didn't have enough thread length for the thick hub.

You don't know how many times I've been on the Jett web site drooling over which engine to stick in this plane. I keep thinking that the BSE 35 is a great balance for power and weight but then if I want to sell the engine, I think more people would prefer a Jett 40 or even a 50.

I've flown my electric version at around 4 pounds so the weight of the Jett 50 should not be too bad. I'm sure it would still have an AUW under 4 lbs.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Would you quit playing around and get the BSE 35 for the LR-1! Anything more will be way above what the plane wants in weight. Yea, the 50 is a great engine, but the 35 just rules, period. Forget the selling stuff, once you run and fly the 35, they will have to pry it out of your cold dead hands. If you don't love it, send me a pm. Imagine a twin quickee!
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Old 10-11-2005, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Hah!!

After my post last night, I went to the Jett web site and ordered the Sport Jett 50. It's less than 4 oz more than the OS37SZH with Macs muffler.

My electric version was carrying over 20 oz of batteries and flew just fine (needed more power, 1000 watts was ok, needs 1500 watts).

How about a quickee twin using supertiger X40's???? It might only get one flight, but man that'll be some flight

I'll post how the LR-1 does with the SJ50 after I get the engine broken in and installed.
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Old 10-11-2005, 02:26 PM
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rmenke
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

OK, so you ordered a 50! Just had to go for the cubic inches? Now I am thinking twin 50's on a 60" Q-500! Sorry, forced to ride your behind through this project. I question if you will be able to mount the 50. If so, reinforce the mount back to wing LE. Plan on finding a Nimah small battery that will go in the back of the fuse to offset the frontal weight. Got to keep as much weight off as possible. S.R. batteries have some great small packs with 6-800 mah that will work well. Need to know what city and state you are located. If possible, would like to be there for the first flight! I expect you to get off the ground with no problem. I expect it to go like crazy and hit speeds in the 160-170 mph range, may even pull the wing off in a dive! Do you have pylons at your field? If so, will bring my little BSE 35 and race you for pinks! Yea, you will be faster, not a bunch faster, but then you gotta turn and keep the thing in control. Gonna get you bad there ( I think). Do you choke when the stakes are a little high? Ok, now what goes up, must come down. If you are perfect and keep your speed up, you should be able to get down, but going to be darn hot, guarantted! If the airframe survives the first landing, will trade you a composite Q-500 in good shape for the LR-1. Frankly, and honestly, hope all will be well and no problems, but am not kidding about pinks or trade! A hard lesson learned this past few years is to listen well to Dub Jett and Bob B when they suggest anything. You can take it to the bank. Will grant you that Bob's flying is nothing special, but he calls well, makes cute little girls well, and simply knows his stuff when it comes to engines and planes. After all, they live this stuff daily, you and I wish. (at leat me) Good wishes for you!
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Old 10-11-2005, 03:22 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

a tiny bit off topic here..... I think it was 1996 NATS, Lyle Larson brought a P-82 looking bird to show off. Built from two of his Strega fuselages, extra wing mid section - and a pair of Nelson Q-40 engines on it Im not sure if it ever flew - but as kewl as just the thought of it it was, it didnt even have to.
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Old 10-11-2005, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

On and off topic here myself, but two of you have mentioned rpm limits already so..

The APC guidelines for their sport props are 190k/dia in inches, so 10" - 19K 9" - 21.1k 8" - 23.75K.

But Bob I know you sound nervous talking about their 8" sport props on Jett .50's, and the comment above about a clipped 8" coming apart are disconcerting as well. So how much do I worry? After break-in on a 9-6 I am planning to try out various 8" props on my.50V1 as recommended in the instructions and by Magnum fliers. It sounds like on most of these .50 size XS aircraft we are running right at the recommended limits or slightly below. How many sport props are coming apart at these limits? On my Jett .50 I will use pylon props as recommended after break in, I have some on order. But most of those sound like a bit too much load for the 50.V1 setup, as it seems to be set up for somewhere between Q500 and I guess QM40 in terms of load and rpm. I guess clipping the pylon props would be the smartest way to go, no?

Thx

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Old 10-11-2005, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

OK, I had a talk with Dub this morning regarding my application for the Sport Jett 50. I will be using the shorter black race muffler as I don't intend to be running anything near a 10x6 prop for this airframe.


He recommended that after break-in, to try the 8.75 diameter series of apc pylon props and cut the dia down as needed to prop for around 19000 to 20500 on the ground.

rmenke, if you are in CT, we'll have a hard time getting together. I'm in Los Angeles area. and Race?? I have absolutely 0, zilch, zero, nada, racing experience.. Just a pretend racer who stands on the runway when no one is there and flies some laps for fun.

They are actually having a Q500 and Q40 race this weekend at my local field. I think I'll bring my electric F5D and see if I can fly some laps around the pylons after their practice on Friday afternoon. OK, so the electric sounds different, but the prop spins over 40k

I can't remember when this stupid speed bug bit me.. its only been a few months I think. The learning curve is steep and I hope that mine does not stay a straight line
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Old 10-12-2005, 07:43 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

MJD,

You can run 8" dia props - but they do not have to be stock 8" props. My recommendation - get the D-1 racing props, and clip them down until you find the RPM you are looking for. For the V1 Id recommend starting with a 8.8x8.5 and clipping it to about 8.25" diameter to start with.

For a stock out of the bag prop, the APC 8.5"x7.25 is pretty small - good blade design - pulls nicely - and as a stock blade the Jett .40SS (sport pylon engine) turns these at 20K rpm on the ground. (we use to use these for break-in props - until we found they worked well on the sport engines for racing - 428 rules require 8.75" dia min - so they can not be used there)

Alternately, use one of the 7.4x8 APC carbon Q-40 props. Those actually run well on the 50V1 with the pipe cut down, but they are a tiny bit too small to get a decent launch out of the Magnum. On something like this LR-1 they might work ok.

Other alternate - Zinger pylon props - dont laugh - they have some 8.75x7.5 props that are pretty good. (we used these for Q-40 prop blanks for quite a while)

As Airbike noted - Dub will recommend the same thing. RPM is important with a good tuned exhaust system, when trying to balance it for a speed aircraft.

Also - Airbike...... make sure to use a bubble-jett or tetra fuel tank in that thing. Its going to foam fuel like you have never seen with a regular fuel tank with that engine.
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Old 10-12-2005, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Thanks Bob. I was actually looking at the 8.5" x 7.25" prop yesterday at my LHS, and considering them as alternatives for the 8x8, figuring the load factor would be similar. Might try those on the Magnum once I trim the header down a bit. Might lose a hair off top end but launch and vertical lines might benefit. We'll see!

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Old 10-12-2005, 03:26 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

"Vertical lines" ... you're talking VTO with that little bird. And propeller diameter will not be a problem; anything over about 6 inches should be fine. In fact, I'd be interested to know where the molds for that airplane came from, because from the photos on the Wild Hare web site it looks identical to the Quarter Midget (.15) racers flown by Dave Timcoe, Archie Adamisin, and Kevin Matney of the Toledo area 30 years ago. If so, you'll need an 800 mAh nicad under the tail to balance it with a .50 up front. The original Quarter Midgets were designed with long noses so they'd CG properly with a Rossi .15 and a 4-ounce tank.

Oh, but it will fly!

Duane Gall
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:28 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

My LR-1 runs great with the Jett 35.. Really sweet engine.. Nice speed.. Only problem is coming in for landing.. Really tricky.. If anyone is goin any larger than the .35, good luck.. Unless you can land like a butterfly with sore feet, be prepared to do maintenance after every flight..
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:49 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Smitty,
I've been dialing in some flaperons on my LR-1 for landing and it does help to slow it down. If you are just over 3 lbs, the LR-1 will slow down quite a bit. Check it out up high to see how much elev compensation you need.
On my electric LR-1 at around 4 lbs, it was harder to slow it down. The wing does delam easily on a rough landing if the gear is mounted on the wing. I haven't tried moving the gear to the fuse yet.
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Old 10-13-2005, 05:08 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Thought about doin that.. Whats the Flaperon setup you have dialed in ur radio??
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:11 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Hi Smitty,
I'm using a JR9303 so I set the left side lever to work the flaperons. From center detent, I can go either down for flaperons or up for spoilerons.

I used another mix to add in the elev compensation with flap lever deployment.

I assigned the lever to only work in landing flight mode. ( if you use flight modes).
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:30 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

I was asking about the % of movement on the flaps.. I set my flaps to the full up nuetral on lever.. Never have used spoilerons, so i just pull down to apply different degree on flaps.
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:32 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Hay Airbike:

Sorry I came off a little huffy with you. The guy that has the 35 in the LR-1 states what I was trying to tell you. With the 50, your weight is going to be critical on landings. Had the Jett 35 in a Krangke F-3D which goes like crazy and pops past the Q-500's with ease and is a ball while flying. When it comes to landing, if I get down without a rough landing, I consider it a minor miricle. Never kills the airframe, just scratches it up more. Am getting to be a expert at working out wows in the landing gear. The Lr-1 is about the same weight and size of my F-3D. Don't think I could stuff my 50 in it, if anything would consider going down to a 25. Don't think you are going to need the speed that the 50 combo will produce, you do need survival. As to the challange, and distance, I am in Merced, California, about 450 miles. When you get that thing going and surviveing, I will make the drive to your area and run for pinks as indicated. You need some experience and flight time on the pylons prior to trying to kick the old mans but. Have a few years of experience on you, flying something since 1949. Two old flying buddies Phil Kraft, Jim Bridi. God, that makes you old, bad eyes, bad reflexes, kids gonna kick your but? Many have tried and died! But enough BS. Your electrics sound interesting. I honestly would consider making the drive for the hell of it, would be nice to get away for a day and meet some new people. One thing about our hobby, I have seldom met anyone that was not a great person. Anyway, keep in toutch, have to go get a flue shot!
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

A few of you noted that landing was a chore....

from the photos, and from what I saw at Toledo, the landing gear is mounted forward of the wing - WAY too far forward!! The thing is going to do nothing but bounce when landing.... Is that what yall are seeing?

At the very least, the gear needs to be back where you might mount forward wing mount bolts... wheels about even with the LE of the wing.

A set of Doddger Q-500 landing gear (Swept back) located in the stock location would help a ton.

Bob
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Old 10-13-2005, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer


SEE WHAT I MEAN!

Back when Bob chimed in about the motors, I said better listen to these guys that live racing. He sure hit the landilng bounce correctly. This is experience far beyound me. Would have never figured that one out. Sure nuf! The Krangke F-3D has the landing gear in front of the wing leading edge and is nasty to land. My home brew "Yellow Jacket " has the landing gear just in front of the CG in the wing and us much easier to get on the ground without stuff happening. The wing is off a Q-500, left the landing gear in the original position. Just lucky sometimes.

Dub and Bob know their stuff and you can take their recommendations to the bank. We are so fortunate to have people like them around. Are they faultless, heck no. Bob is a very knowledgeable person, great caller, makes bueatiful little girls, but can't fly worth beans. I don't know this first hand, a fella named "Nelsona" swore it was true.

Twins? Was sort of jokeing around about that, but picture this. Find the Don Lyons Tomahock, picture a Jett 90L at the back puushing and a Jett 50 on the front like the crazy cessna. I have the engines and time if someone would care to come up with the plane. God this would be a bueatiful aircraft with two BSE shining and screeming Jetts at either end. Am ranting in my old age. See ya
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Old 10-14-2005, 07:54 PM
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Default RE: wild hare, LR-1 pylon racer

Just how fast is the LR-1 with a Jett .35?
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