Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

F-20 have washout?

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Old 10-31-2005, 10:59 PM
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setxws6
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Default F-20 have washout?

Does the sportsman aviation f-20 have any washout? Does it have any tendency to tip stall?

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Old 11-01-2005, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

I just put mine togeather like it came. It flew great with the power on. None of the F-20s are going to be a very good slow flier. They will slow down nicely for landing as long as you have a decent line. Otherwise they like to run. My SA flew flawlessly till I got caught slowing down too much in a turn setting up for landing. I should have kept it moving a little while getting a pattern. New Feild and new plane, bad combo.
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

You really should land these with some power until right before touchdown. Throttle management. They don't glide at all. High wing loading. If the engine quits, its coming down.
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Old 11-01-2005, 12:33 PM
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setxws6
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Have any of you put the nose to the wind and back the throttle down and let it stall to see what it does?
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Old 11-01-2005, 12:37 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Yeah, it quits flying. This is not a trainer, 3D, or fun flier. It's an entry into gotta go fast planes that will cut you a little slack and is easy to see. They also look too cool in the air.
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Old 11-01-2005, 03:16 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

So does their noses just drop straight toward the ground? Or does it snap on one wing tip hard and tumble?
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:17 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Looks like your set on wanting to see one stall. So I suggest you build it as cheap as you can and throw some GMS junk up front. After you stuff it, you'll understand what we're talking about. These planes don't fly well just "tooling" around like a stick, edge, or extra. They fly best when flying fast. They are intense. Most of my fleet are set up this way and my timer on all my planes is set up for 5 minutes and when that time is up, I've had enough and time for a break.

When you have $1000 tied up in one like me, 5 minutes seems like an hour when your average speed is 100mph.
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

No, don't get me wrong! That's the whole reason I got the plane, was to fly fast. Hell, I'm already a speed freak in my car, so I know I'm one in the sky! The only thing I was wondering is if or when it may stall what it may do.
Because I know that some wings that have a lot of taper in them and don't have washout, tend to snap on one wing and tumble toward the ground fast. That's no good if you don't have enough time to recover! I'm okay with a plane that points the nose to the ground hard after it stalls. I just hope it doesn't snap on me.
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Old 11-02-2005, 03:49 AM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

The point is, they are good handlers....like a pattern plane. They won't snap
just because you gave up elevator. They won't tip stall or spin, there is no
washout at the tips. However, you don't want to stall a jet....not good. []

Mine is a Cermark, not a Sportsman Av.

Make sure the rudder hinge line is tilted back 7 degrees, or it can flutter at
speed.

FBD.
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Well, take a Warbird of any kind. Stall it and its over. Planes like Edges, Extras and that line can stall but it takes more effort to make them stall. I watch these guys bring those extras and such in on landings low and slow and plop it down. You try that trick on a warbird or a prop jet and its going to plop down right on its back!

I am not saying come in and land full speed but you cannot land them like a trainer or a stick and need a bit of throttle while landing. No coasting on in.
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Old 11-02-2005, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Don't worry all that much about the plane handling

As noted, the Sportsman and Kangke F-20 planes fly well. No bad habits. Set either up and balance it well, and you will have no problems. They fly like pattern aircraft. With the low-aspect ratio wings, and somewhat high wing loading - they are not very good gliders.

The DC / Juno F-20 flys very well. Landing speed is not that much higher than most heavy sport planes or other scale aircraft. The plane will simply start decending when you pull the power off. If you haul on the elevator with the power off, its going to simply fall out of the air.

(keep in mind the elevator does not always make the plane go up and down. Most of the ability to go up has to do with the big spinny thing up front)

On landing, just keep the speed up. Use the throttle, keep the nose down if needed. Practice lower speed handling up at altitude.

With experience, you will be able to land the plane with the nose 4 deg up, and use the throttle to control the decent rate (just like the full scale).
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:03 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Well said, Bob....[sm=thumbup.gif]

Another thing to do is laterally balance the small F-20's. They will lean to the
right on you.

FBD.
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Old 11-02-2005, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

setxws6,

Bob is right, the SA F-20 flies well and exhibits no bad habits. I've flown a friends F-20 many times and have found it to be pretty easy to deal with -- no tip stall/snap tendencies at all, and a slower stall speed that you might think.

I always bring it in pretty far downfield on my approach leg, reduce power and let it slow until i start to see the angle of attack increasing, then just let it settle in and decend. Use throttle and not elevator to control decent as Bob suggests. My experience is that the plane will not slow down quickly, which is the reason for the long approach -- without that you will likely overshoot the runway. I suggest a fair amount of touch-and-go's to get used to how the plane "settles in" to a nice decent rate with nose slightly up (AOA).

So, don't worry 'bout it, you'll be fine. When my buddy first let me take the sticks, I was primarily flying 3D/funfly aircraft with their super floaty/high alpha landings... and I had no problems landing this on my first try. It was a lot more forgiving than I had assumed it would be.
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Old 11-03-2005, 12:08 AM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Thanks Endor, it's good to know it won't snap on me. I don't plan on fly slow at all, but when landing, it's good to know what it might do if the engine quits, etc...
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

I have a Direct connection f20. If you want to talk about speed, I have installed a YS 61 with pipe using an 11 x 11 apc prop, retracts and a shute. Man does this thing go. I estimate 140 - 150 mph.
This plane flies and tracks straight as an arrow but I have to land it as fast as you normally fly a sport plane. It is in in 6th season and still going strong. You have to be on the sticks at all times.
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Old 11-03-2005, 02:47 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

How about a picture of that one. I am probably going to put mine in rebuild next spring. I was thinking of doing one of those MIG schemes like we see in the movies when our guys a being chased down by repainted F-5s with red stars on them
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Old 11-03-2005, 03:03 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?


ORIGINAL: Cyclic Hardover

How about a picture of that one

This threads now meaningless with out pics!
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Old 11-03-2005, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Ok here it is.
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Wow cool! That's like putting a big block in a honda civic!

What is a shute? Do you mean a shute to slow it down after landing?
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:18 AM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

Yes I mean Parachute, and it is used to slow it down on landing. Really it is only for effect. When flying off grass it slows down quick enough. The shute deploys via a spring loaded plunger, when the back door is opened t pops out. I also added a release system just in case it opens while in flight. Don't use it much, mostly just at events.
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

HI Guys

I had this plane for 3 years and she was a blast to fly. I sold her to a buddy that still Alys her to this day.

I never did stall her and my feeling is she doesn't have washout. The best way to land her is get a bit low on approach and drag her in with power. The key is power control ur rate of descent with the throttle and speed with your pitch mine was anywhere from 5 to 10 degrees nose up on approach be careful not to use more u might hit that long tail.

I flew this plane at full power continuously regardless of where the nose was pointed she never fluttered or had any bad tendencies. My control hinges were all sealed as were my landing gear openings with doors.

She is a great practice bird for getting into Turbines.

Hope this helps U
Ian
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Old 11-04-2005, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

YOu need longer struts
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Old 11-04-2005, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: F-20 have washout?

I have a Direct connection f20. If you want to talk about speed, I have installed a YS 61 with pipe using an 11 x 11 apc prop, retracts and a shute. Man does this thing go. I estimate 140 - 150 mph.
cool. I have a mag 52 in mine right now. I am thinking of building another one over the winter. probably use the 52 until my nerves can handle something more balistic.
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