Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

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Old 11-01-2005, 10:14 PM
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myork
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Default Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Hey everyone. I know that the PC-9 is no Diamont Dust or Magnum. But you guys are the speed expert's. I am getting ready to complete my Seagull Models Pilatus PC-9 and i'm installing a brand new YS .63FZs with an 11/8 prop. I was just wondering what kind of speeds I should expect. I was hoping for atleast 115mph. Do you think it will happen. I'm a speed freak myself. and this will be my 3rd plane. Right now I'm flying a clipped wing 4* 40 (wing was clipped 6in) with a ENYA .45 and it is just not fast enough for me any more. We clocked it at 86mph. I WANT TRIPPLE DIGIT'S

Mods. if this should be in a different forum feal free to move it.

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Old 11-01-2005, 10:43 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

That airfoil looks a little thick to be expecting 100mph. Maybe in a dive. But, look out for that dreaded flutter! Climb should be most empressive. You cannot beat YS engines when it comes to raw power!



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Old 11-02-2005, 12:11 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

cool man. yeah I just started flying this spring so I'm still real new to the hobby and this whole speed thing. I upgraded my linkage's to nice DuBro gear so I shouldn't have a flutter problem. I think my next plane is going to be a Diamond Dust. Then I'll get my speed.

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Old 11-08-2005, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

MYork
Try your PC9 without the undercarridge, it will suprise you at the increase in speed just by removing some parastitic drag from the aircraft, why else have retracts? I'm investigating some lightweight retract for my Seagull PC9 at the moment will let you know when I'v decided, will put details on the thread when I take the thing to pieces and do it.
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Old 11-10-2005, 10:50 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

My friend had one with a TT .46Pro. He put it into a vertical dive. Half way through the dive he experienced high speed flutter. Said it sounded like someone flapping a plastic bag around in a strong breeze. Seconds latter the elevator ripped off!
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Old 11-11-2005, 07:45 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Hi
Perhaps I should have mentioned that I never use plastic snap links, they go in the bin as soon as I open a kit or ARTF, metal quick links with lock nuts only on my aircraft, and fuel tubing retainers, even though I struggle to open them, My push rods are normally reinforced with carbon tube pushed over the metal rods, if not replaced with full carbon, keep any pushrods straight if you must use them no bends at all in them, the ultimate system to prevent flutter is a cable pull pull and my preference. The only flutter I have ever experienced is with a foamy in strong winds and this was an own design with no fus bracing, and it was the fus that fluttered.

Grab hold of your flying surfaces if you can move them without moving the servo's you will get flutter at high speed, it rearly is that simple.
Mike
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Old 11-17-2005, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Yeah I put good DuBRO hardware on it. I'm going to tey to fly it this Sun. I will let you guys know what happens. Even if it is not as fast as I want it to be. It damn sure is going to have some awesome vertical. I had to relocate the steering arm to clear the carb on the motor.
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Old 11-29-2005, 07:46 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Just started a new thread called "Retractable undercarridge installation in a RTF" using the Seagull PC9 as the subject. Have a look and any informed comments appreciated.
Mike
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Old 11-29-2005, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

My friend also lost his PC-9 in a dive. Elevator flutter. He had installed sullivan cables, and the metal links on it.

He has bought another, with the same setup, but has put hinge tape on the elevator, sealing the gap and has not had any problems yet.
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Old 11-29-2005, 10:47 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Sonnic
the standard push rods are not supported enough at the rear allowing the control surfaces to be moved without moving the servo, I got over this by reducing the length of the slot the rod appears from at the back, simple mod just stick a length of ply vertically accross the two slots approx one third of the slot length from the rudder over the rudder push rod and under the elevator push rod, this effectivly stops the excess flex, sorry I am unable to post pics at the moment, but will when I can.
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Sonnich
Sorry forgot the h last time.
A picture is worth a thousand words, pic from last post.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:37 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

MYork
Have you flown it yet? what do you think? did you get flutter? etc:
Mike
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

O.k. guys. Sorry haven't been to posting alot here alot. Here's how the PC9 turned out. It's friggin awesome. It's very fast and I'm still on the break in period on the motor. So i'm leaving some power on the table. The only thing I didn't use from the ARF kit was the clevis's on the elevator, rudder etc. and the fuel tank. We ended up using a 12 oz Dr. Pepper bottle for the tank. The bottle worked good. But the fuse. is to narrow for and the former's rubbed a hole in each side of the fuel tank. YS+leaky fuel tank= No power. So i'm going to have to replace the tank. Going with a Hayes Slimline from tower. But like I said before I didn't mod anything to the plane itself except for the steering issue like said before. I didn't gap seal the hinges nor did I replace the stock pushrods. I have no flutter issue at all. All in All the PC9 is a very nice ARF for the money and the amount of work you have todo to build it. Very nice quality. You couldn't ask for a better flying airplane. It does land hot. But high performance airplanes need high performance landing. Speed is insane. Of course this is my 3rd airplane and I just started flying this spring. Went from a Nexstar, to Clipped wing 4* 40 with a tail that looks like a Ultimate (very aerobatic) with a ENYA .45, then to the PC9 I'm wanting to get my hands on a Quickie 500 plane next. So the PC9 might not compare to that. The PC9 drew some attention at the field. There are many nice planes in the club. But it seemed like the other guys were keeping there eys on the PC9. Plus the roar of that YS with no muffler will get you attention aswell. Next time I fly it I will take some video. I don't know when that will be. It's around 30 degrees outside right now here in KY. So going to the flying field is not high on my list right now. I can't wait till spring Hopefully I'll have the PC9 and a Quickie 500 by then. Let the race's begin. I'm definetly a Speed Freak.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:14 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

MYork
glad to hear it all went well except for the tank, try flaps or spoilerons in your programmable transmitter if you have one, they work fine, also if you can flapperons they change the elevator responce out of all proportion also the flair on landing is enhanced no end. Try it and let us know what you think.
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Old 12-19-2005, 07:08 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

To all
A thought I just had concerning the tank, are you all using a two tube tank, this is what could be causing the syphoning that has been experienced, its normall over here to use a three tube tank exhast vent is to the top of the tank, therefore vented to air untill the engine is started, fill and empty to the bottom of the tank and feed from the clunk. I would be interested to know if that is the case?
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

With my YS. I'm only using a 2 tube. With the fill and vent running to the regulator with T fittings in both lines. So my fill and vent is zip tied to my nose gear with plugs in them. It seems to be working fine.
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Old 12-20-2005, 05:46 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

myork
I'm not suprised that with the regulator system on the YS you have not had a problem, I was directing my comment more towards the people that are having a problem with syponing of the fuel into the carb on there inverted installation, however any feedback from any sorce gives an indication to those who are in difficulty what others are using. Thanks for the info.
Compliments of the season.
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Old 12-20-2005, 05:54 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Rich
I used one of those neat button things to put the fill line on top of the cowl neatens eveything up no end, no dangly bits in the wind, see pics.

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Old 12-20-2005, 10:27 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

cool Bald Eagle. Sorry I'm new to the hobby been flying less than a year so sometimes I speak when I'm not being spoken to
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Old 12-22-2005, 01:33 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

myork
I would much rather be answered than ignored any day,
Anyone.
This tank thing that has been going on intrigues me, if the tank vent was under the fuel level and the fill line also, the only way to get air into the tank whilst the engine is not running is through the carb, now if you are filling the tank through the engine line, that would then be full of fuel when reconected to the carb, if the tank is higher than the carb, you have then got a perfect syhon to fill your carb with. A three pipe system would solve this by fill and empty through a vent line that is to the bottom of the tank, plugged after filling, the other vent to the top of the tank connected to the silencer, and engine line as normall to the clunk. The syphon effect could establish itself but only after fuel had been drawn through the carb line, if that line is positioned such that it has a route above the fuel upermost level the syphon cannot establish itself without a purposfull draw through the carb line. This is all thoughts that are occuring whilst I'm writting this, feel free to contradict if you need too.
Mike
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Old 01-28-2006, 11:40 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Hey guys just wanted to give you and update on the PC9. She's SCREAMING!!

For those of you who don't know the plane is as follows.
Seagull Pilatus PC9
YS .63FZs
Was spinning a Grapner 12/6
Now turning a APC 11/10 on 25% Fuel

I've got another buddy in the club who I was racing yesterday. He's flying a

Great Planes Little Toni
OS .91 Surpass
APC 12/10 on 25%

Our planes our dead even in a dive. He is saying were flying around 120mph to 130mph. Of course we don't have a radar gun but I trust his judgement. He used to fly Ducted Fan Sport Jets in the early 90's competing for the World Record. So like I said we are almost dead even in a dive. The PC9 is just alittle faster. When we level off that's when my broomstick for a leading edge wing starts slowing me up. He can pass me in straight level flight. I'm still flying without the cowl but I will probably put it on this week. I just haven't put it because I wanted to get the bugs worked out of the YS if you can work them out. Anyways just thought I would let you guys know how the PC9 was going. The next time we fly which will be this week if it's pretty. I'm going to have someone at the field film the race. Then I will post it up. I think i'm going to get the Great Planes Minnow and put a Saito 100 on it for my next plane. "Give me Wrap Speed Scotty"[&:]
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Old 01-30-2006, 03:08 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Keep me posted MYORK. It was largely on your post that I got my PC9. I put an Enya .60 in it, the first flights were great. I couldn't really let her loose because the engine needed a little more break in, fog and the fact that I hadn't flown in 15 years. I like speed but also snappy maneuvers and old style pattern flying. This bird seems to be able to provide it. Unfortunatly, I was unfamiliar with the flying feild and caught tree on my last approach. I did get it down and the only damage is the wing. New wing kit will be here Thursday. With the original wing damaged, I took the opportunity to peel off the covering and found good construction throughout. I will rebuild the wing as a spare. Have you programmed in flaperons? I'm thinking of doing this as we have a grass feild with short approaches (trees). If so, how do they perform?
John
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Old 01-31-2006, 07:49 AM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

da50ex

If you have the wing striped how about putting retracts in it?

I have flapperons on mine, but found them inaffective because of their small overall width, they work well as an airbrake at extream down movement, but the plane is such that I find it does not need them for landing.

MYork

there was lots of talk of flutter on the thread earlier have you experienced any? My own mod seemed to work as I have not experienced any problems at all, the retract installation will be complete by this weekend will then fly and report.

Mike
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:18 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

Mike,
I've been following your thread on retracts, and am considering it. Our feild is rather rough grass so I'd be a little concerned especially in the winter months. If I do I would probably buy a new fuselage and start from scratch. I'm rebuilding an old TF P-51 that needed a new rear spar to knock the rust off my building skills, then I will attempt it. I never had retracts but always wanted them. Seeing as how the flaperons just take a little prograaming and rigging I'm going to try it out I'm still gettting my thumbs loose after a 15 year layoff.
John
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Old 01-31-2006, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: Seagull PC-9 with YS.63 how fast?

No sir I haven't experienced any flutter at all. I'm am pushing this plane hard to. When I was racing the Little Toni at the field we were doing what he called jet speed runs (he's a jet flyer like said before) We would get the planes as high up as we were able to fly. Were we were basically flying the radio. You couldn't really see the wings. Then what we would do is roll inverted and put the planes in a dive at about a 75 degree angle. Basically if we didn't pull out the planes would smack the runway in front of us. Like I said before i did not gap seal the control surface's, I used the factory hardware except I used metal clevis's for the elevator and rudder. That's it. All servos are standards except I used a high torque on the rudder (I love doing low knife edge pass's wide open). I would love to put retracts on the plane. But where the fuel tank is located it would be hard to get one in the nose. I think I'm just going to leave it like it is. The only other thing i'm going to do is put some more graphics on it. I left all the factory decals off. Like I said the next time we fly and we have a person to hold the camera. I'll film it and post it up.
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