Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

Diamond QD (Quick and Dirty)

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Old 11-05-2005, 07:32 PM
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Bob.R
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Default Diamond QD (Quick and Dirty)

I've been wanting to design and build a wing thing to fly at a nearby small grass field - something quick and fun, but not so fast and loud that it terrifies women, children, and wildlife. I've had a bit of spare time the last week, so I started a new build.

I like the clever, simple, and light design of the Diamond Dust, and I like the sheeted wing and the rudder of the Outlaw, so, why not a bit of cross breeding. I'll also try a couple of building techniques that have been bouncing around in my head for a while.

I'll try to keep it light, under three pounds I hope, but I rarely hit my target weight, so we'll see. I'm going to power it with an OS 32 that I've had laying around for a couple of years for a project like this. If it isn't quick enough, I can bolt on a Jett tuned muffler. Wing area 450 in sq, 34" wingspan.

The autocad screen capture shows a bit of the structure, but the rudder has not yet been drawn.

Hope this thing flies .
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Old 11-05-2005, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

The front triangular cross section tube will become a portion of the diamond airfoil. I'm not wild about the aerodynamics of diamond airfoils, but they sure are quick and simple to build. The triangular tube is fully closed for structural rigidity. I'm using materials, including carbon fiber and balsa, left over from my Barracuda ballistic pattern ship build. The first pic shows triangular ribs being glued in place (carbon fiber has already been applied to the sheeting). The second pic shows the right and left triangular tubes fully sheeted and glued together. Total weight of the the front structure at this point is 3.2 ounces. It is amazingly rigid in bending and torsion.
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Old 11-06-2005, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

The best thing about the diamond airfoil is that it builds easily and quickly on wax paper over plans. The trailing edge structure consists of two pieces of 1.25 x 1/16 balsa, one top and one bottom, with carbon fiber glued full span. The two trailing edge pieces will then have a shear web of 1/16 balsa glued in place. The trailing edge becomes a fairly rigid rear spar that works together with the front triangular tube.
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Old 11-06-2005, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

More progress on the structure. The top surface of the trailing edge spar is now in place.
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Old 11-06-2005, 10:30 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

The completed structure is popped off the table. The first pic shows the top side. The central hatch will hold a 6oz Jett oval cg bubbleless tank, battery, receiver, and the throttle servo. I think I could have reduced the size of the hatch and the thickness of the airfoil, but I wanted some flexibility to move components around to balance the plane. I want to keep the tank at or near the cg to minimize trim changes during flight.

The second pic shows the bottom side. The servo cavity will hold two elevon servos and one rudder servo, all side by side. Sub fins will keep the servo arms and control horns out of the dirt, I hope.

Total weight at this point is 5.6 oz. Maybe I'll make weight.
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Old 11-06-2005, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Looking real good there Bobber !!

Seems to be fairly straight foward to build
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Old 11-06-2005, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Hey Bob - amazing how quickly things go when everything is composed of straight lines and the build can be done over a flat surface. A nice change of pace. If this works out, I might have to do a thinned out version with a Jett 50.[sm=devious.gif]

I didn't have any aileron stock and did not want to make a trip to the hobby shop, so I built up elevons with 1/16 sheet. Probably doesn't save much weight over solid stock, but at least I can build in a plywood hard point for the control horn. The elevon on the right has been completed with the top surface glued on. The elevon on the left shows internal structure. It looks tedious but really isn't as the internal pieces don't need to be precisely cut - just glue rough cut pieces in place and then take down with a sanding block.

Well, work and travel are about to interfere with the project, but I hope to wrap up the structure next weekend.
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Old 11-07-2005, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Hi Bobber

I built a Diamond Dust with the with the rudder stabs at 90 degrees from the fuse vs the original that I had with angled stabs. I also put dual rudders on it in an attempt to get it to flat spin. My rudders were only about 5/8 inch deep. They did not give me enough rudder throw to be benificial but would give a small amount of yaw. When you build your rudders, mak them at least an 1 1/2 or 2 inches. That should give you a good right or left kick. I was too conservative. Sometime I plan to cut the rudders off and enlarge them.
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Old 11-07-2005, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Thanks Bill. I was thinking of something around 2 inches with a pretty good tail moment arm if it doesn't wreck the cg location.
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Old 11-09-2005, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Bobber
I have Magnum 46xls with a APC 9X8.5 prop on mine so it is slightly nose heavy. I don't know the weight on the 32 so you probably do need to pay close attention to the CG. When you do your rudder system PM me or post here so I can see how it worked out. I'm very interested in your project. If you decide that two inches is not enough when I change my set up I'll try 2.5 inch rudders otherwise, I will probably go with 2 inch also.
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Old 11-13-2005, 07:07 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

A little more progress was made over the weekend. 6 oz 2" wide glass tape was applied to the joint at the center of the front tube. The floor of the hatch area was covered with 2 oz glass. The motor mount was epoxied in place.
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Old 11-13-2005, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

The 6 oz 2" glass tape was applied along the center of the bottom of the wing. This creates a hatch floor with glass on both sides - very strong and rigid. I've used this technique of sandwiching balsa between two glass layers on a number of structures including molded balsa fuselage shells, but that's another story.

Two sub fins were glued to the underside of the wing and the joint was reinforced with triangle stock. I hope the sub fins will perform two functions - first, keep the servo arms and control horns out of the dirt, and second, add lift in knife edge flight. I don't expect sustained knife edge flight, but maybe the sub fins will provide enough lift for reasonable slow and point rolls. Should be an interesting experiment.
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Old 11-13-2005, 07:19 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

The servo rails were glued into the servo well and the servos were test fitted. The outer servos will control elevons, and the center servo will control the rudder with a pull-pull setup.
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Old 11-13-2005, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

The OS 32 is test fitted, and the hatch cover is put in place. After working with the Jett 90 on my last project, the OS 32 looks a bit like a toy. However, I understand it is a pretty powerful motor for its size.

The wing structure is now mostly done. I can begin to temporarily install components and then build the fin/rudder assembly. I'm hoping to make the fin/rudder assembly fairly long, but I need to check the balance point before I finalize the design.
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Old 11-14-2005, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Looking good Bobber,

I like the idea of the sub fins. Curious to know what the weight will be before radio and engine installation.
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Old 11-14-2005, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Hey Bill - the frame with everything but fin, rudder and covering is currently at 11 oz. Add engine, prop, tank, servos, battery, and receiver, and the weight is 35 oz. I figure the fin/rudder will add 2 - 3 oz. I should make my 2.5 to 3 pound weight with a little luck.
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Old 11-15-2005, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Bobber,

That should be a real bad boy. Can't wait to hear your flight report.
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Old 11-16-2005, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

The rear of the wing is covered with wax paper, and a lightweight frame for the fin is built in place. The plane currently has a forward balance point, so a longer, bigger fin can be used without penalty. Skins of 3/32 balsa are epoxied to the frame and held in place with clothes pins. Once the epoxy cures, the fin is popped loose from the wing and can be finished and covered more conveniently. Very rigid and pretty light. Fin and rudder are just over an ounce.
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Old 11-16-2005, 12:20 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Well, it's different! Knife edge and blender tests should be interesting. The build is essentially done - next steps are to moneykote and install equipment. If it flies, I'll post a flight report. If it crashes, I guess I'll post a crash report. Will probably be a couple of weeks with funky weather on the horizon.
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

in a strange way it reminds me of a Taube

Looks kewl though. Nice to see some imagination out here!
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:19 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

I had not thought of that Bob, but there is a resemblence to the Taube in the big fin. Maybe a couple of iron crosses would set it off. The fin looks like overkill, but the sub fins are ahead of the cg and create some yaw instability that needs to be counteracted. I also want to try to knife edge this thing, and it will need some serious yaw angle I think. Test flight ought to be good for a laugh or two.

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Old 12-02-2005, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Well, today was test flight day. Hand launch of an untrimmed wing thing, radio in one hand, wing thing in the other, is a pretty good adrenaline rush. There is work to do on the control setup - needs more expo for sure. It can climb in knife edge flight, so the sub fins work OK. Final dry weight 2 lb 10 oz. It's not extreme speed, but it's pretty darned quick - maybe I should have posted in the Pretty Darned Quick Prop Plane Forum so as to not offend any german speed guys.
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Old 12-03-2005, 01:10 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Got any pics of the finished product? I'm also curious as to how you hand launch a wing with elevons and a massive fin/rudder in the center where a hand hold might normally be. Looks like a very cool project though. Nice work.
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Old 12-03-2005, 10:38 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

Hey Cobra, I'll shoot and post a few pics in the next few days. I might try to get a short vid of knife edge flight if I can recruit a camera operator who can track the plane.

I launched holding one the sub fins - the little OS wants to pull it out of my hand, so not much effort involved. However, I had too much up trim dialed in for the maiden, so the plane went vertical on lauch - that was entertaining. [X(] The cg is set just slightly ahead of 25% of the mean chord location, so it turns out very little up trim is needed.

This was a fun build. Quick and Dirty without the complications of fuselage, stab, and landing gear.
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Old 12-05-2005, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: Diamond Outlaw build

sounds like it was a blast
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