Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
12-15-2005, 02:39 AM
#51
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
BUDDUDE 8:
Oh boy, here we go again! Had a strange few days. A person on my accounts receivable bad list came by Monday and paid his 5 year old bill in full. Rat hole money! Whee. I live in the boon docks Centeral Calif. area and must make a occasional pligramage to the bay area (San Francisco) or my favorite HS and people ar RC Country in Sacramento, both about 1.5 hours drive one way. Walked in the door, someone quietly said "here comes payday". (Joke) Anyway, running down my favorite salesman Chuck Rounder, the shop speed nut, I observe a box on the high shelf. Could read the words Alley on the box. Got the ladder, last word on the box was Cat. Chuck pops up and tells me thats the last one in the shop, and I cant have it, but you can look at it. So down it comes, we pop the box and its love at first sight. Now were talking a smoke machine, but the box says for 50-60. I say, Chuck, I just gotta have this thing. Sorry Roger, last one in the shop and a good customer looking at it and should pick it up today. So, who am I, dog food. After a little yelling about prejudice against the elderly is illegal etc. I mentioned I was also a fellow rever brother. Wham, bam, and away we go. Now the thing is hiding under some foam under the workbench and I am wondering how to inform the boss lady of the house of what I have done, again. Glad you guys are never in this position, can get rough some times, but its the Hollidays, so should survive. Now, here comes the rub where you are involved. Chuck is also building a Alley Cat with a YS 110, mine either a Jett 50, 60 or 90 BSE sports. After our builds and some trim flights, we are going to meet on nutural ground so he can discover what old and treacherous really means. Now, since your Little Tony is king on the hill in your area you are hereby invited (challanged) to join us with that fast thing. Its sort of put up or shut up time here for all of us. Palcentia Ca. is not so far from Merced Ca and Sacramento Ca. Does Madera sound like nutural ground to you? Going to be around March I think before this GD fog goes away for sure, maby April. Whatya think?
Oh boy, here we go again! Had a strange few days. A person on my accounts receivable bad list came by Monday and paid his 5 year old bill in full. Rat hole money! Whee. I live in the boon docks Centeral Calif. area and must make a occasional pligramage to the bay area (San Francisco) or my favorite HS and people ar RC Country in Sacramento, both about 1.5 hours drive one way. Walked in the door, someone quietly said "here comes payday". (Joke) Anyway, running down my favorite salesman Chuck Rounder, the shop speed nut, I observe a box on the high shelf. Could read the words Alley on the box. Got the ladder, last word on the box was Cat. Chuck pops up and tells me thats the last one in the shop, and I cant have it, but you can look at it. So down it comes, we pop the box and its love at first sight. Now were talking a smoke machine, but the box says for 50-60. I say, Chuck, I just gotta have this thing. Sorry Roger, last one in the shop and a good customer looking at it and should pick it up today. So, who am I, dog food. After a little yelling about prejudice against the elderly is illegal etc. I mentioned I was also a fellow rever brother. Wham, bam, and away we go. Now the thing is hiding under some foam under the workbench and I am wondering how to inform the boss lady of the house of what I have done, again. Glad you guys are never in this position, can get rough some times, but its the Hollidays, so should survive. Now, here comes the rub where you are involved. Chuck is also building a Alley Cat with a YS 110, mine either a Jett 50, 60 or 90 BSE sports. After our builds and some trim flights, we are going to meet on nutural ground so he can discover what old and treacherous really means. Now, since your Little Tony is king on the hill in your area you are hereby invited (challanged) to join us with that fast thing. Its sort of put up or shut up time here for all of us. Palcentia Ca. is not so far from Merced Ca and Sacramento Ca. Does Madera sound like nutural ground to you? Going to be around March I think before this GD fog goes away for sure, maby April. Whatya think?
12-17-2005, 05:34 PM
#52
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
Hi Again,
Someone told me the easiest way to increase speed is to increase rpm. More Nitro in my Fan engine yielded a 10-15% increase which got me well over 150mph. We used to race boats with no less than 40% nitro. I have not had the guts to put the 40% into my fan engine yet. One prop failure and the engine would suffer damage. However, in a smaller, sleeker stiletto Mustang type model, it might just be worth it - especially if I could get a Marine sleeve timed for 28,000. Boy am I a sucker for speed.
randy
Someone told me the easiest way to increase speed is to increase rpm. More Nitro in my Fan engine yielded a 10-15% increase which got me well over 150mph. We used to race boats with no less than 40% nitro. I have not had the guts to put the 40% into my fan engine yet. One prop failure and the engine would suffer damage. However, in a smaller, sleeker stiletto Mustang type model, it might just be worth it - especially if I could get a Marine sleeve timed for 28,000. Boy am I a sucker for speed.
randy
01-09-2006, 11:33 PM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
rmenke
I would love to meet at a half way point some time and put my plane to the test. Placentia is located in so cal in orange county about 40 miles south east of la. I think buttinwillow would be more in between. If you really want to do this pm with your phone number and i will give you a call
ken
I would love to meet at a half way point some time and put my plane to the test. Placentia is located in so cal in orange county about 40 miles south east of la. I think buttinwillow would be more in between. If you really want to do this pm with your phone number and i will give you a call
ken
01-16-2006, 02:21 PM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
hooaa,
i've moved to another thread dedicated to the alley cat..... ... . .. . . . . . .
click [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3560898/anchors_3782393/mpage_5/anchor/tm.htm#3782393]here[/link]
i've moved to another thread dedicated to the alley cat..... ... . .. . . . . . .
click [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3560898/anchors_3782393/mpage_5/anchor/tm.htm#3782393]here[/link]
07-04-2007, 10:32 AM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
I have owned a Little Toni for about 2 years now and put a YS-110 FZ on it. It screams. One problem I have is slowing it down for landing. I can cut the throttle to idle and pull the nose up big time to slow it down, but it slides by me every time on the runway. The guys at the club just laugh. My other pylon racers slow down to a nice speed. but this one just doesn't want to come down. Perhaps its a spiritual thing. lol
07-04-2007, 07:32 PM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
Vasmikey:
Been a while since my Tony. My AC has two wing servos which allows flap. If possible, dial in 10-15% flap and try it at altitude. It may help with your landings. Best direction is spend a few flights doing nothing but landings. You should be at low idle prior to final and nice and slow. These things do not just fall out of the air like some, so there is some stall warning prior to falling off. The Little Tony and Alley Cat were a supprise in the air, both would hover, the AC will also elevator, just not on par with a good 3d'r. Let the guys have their laugh, concentrate on practice, practice, practice. You will get it right, and you will start to make great landings worthy of applause. There will always be someone out there better, faster, and stronger. Accept that, practice practice practice and then kick-um between the legs if all else fails. ENJOY
Been a while since my Tony. My AC has two wing servos which allows flap. If possible, dial in 10-15% flap and try it at altitude. It may help with your landings. Best direction is spend a few flights doing nothing but landings. You should be at low idle prior to final and nice and slow. These things do not just fall out of the air like some, so there is some stall warning prior to falling off. The Little Tony and Alley Cat were a supprise in the air, both would hover, the AC will also elevator, just not on par with a good 3d'r. Let the guys have their laugh, concentrate on practice, practice, practice. You will get it right, and you will start to make great landings worthy of applause. There will always be someone out there better, faster, and stronger. Accept that, practice practice practice and then kick-um between the legs if all else fails. ENJOY
08-30-2007, 03:45 AM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
I lost two Toni's this summer already. Both times due to radio failure. I am really not a bad pilot... Really. The first was a complete write off. The other I destroyed the wing and banged in the front end, which to look at really does not seem too bad. I was wondering if anyone out there has ever tried to rebuild the front end of a toni and how much work would be involved. So far I have only managed to put together arf's seeing as this is only my second year flying. Was just wondering if I am going to be in over my head if I try and attempt a rebuild on the front end of a fiberglass fuse when I haven't even put together a kit yet.
08-30-2007, 03:08 PM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
Mike:
Like anything else, it helps to have some background experience. There is a art to building and fiberglass work, but not rocket science. If there is enough of the nose left on the bird to allow you to push it back into original position, you should be able to repair it with no problem, just some added weight. There are several threads on composite buildilng that would be good to read through. You can to with just fiberglass and epoxie. Look at the existing fiberglass weave and try to find something near the same weave and weight as the original. Z-poxie finishing resin is a good brand, all purpose material, but is slow 20-30 minutes in setting up. You have to get all the oil out of the repair area, a bath in kitchen soap and warm watter followed by wipe down of alcohol should do the trick. Roughen up the area with 80 grit sandpaper as much as you can. Cut the FB with a pizza wheel cutter or scissors and don't worry about the strings. New piece should be large enough to overlap the repair area into the new by 3/4" or so. You need popsicle sticks and forcep type long nose plyers along with soldering brushes as aids. Also need to find little plastic medical measure cups from a local medical supply house, maby at your local drug store, but I have to go to a medical supply around here. They are marked in oz. and volume, about 3 cents each. You can chuck them after use or wash out with alcohol and paper towls. Thing is with Z-poxie, if you mix more hardner than epoxie in the cup, you get useless rubber. Always use a little less hardner to get a good strong finish. There are losts of fiberglass/composits and epoxie supplyers out there, some better than the other, but usually all will work. I would repair from the inside myself as getting a sanded finish will be easier, but outside will work. Find a building with composits thread on rcu and read. Bottom line, you need to keep it light and strong. Its tough trying to get a feel of a problem like this, a few pics would help a bunch and also generate some additional help from the people here. See what you can to in this area. Even if you try and fail, you will learn from mestakes and to better next time. There is really no great tallent involved with building once you get the hang of it, just follow instructions. What is key in my view is having a streight building board and a few simple tools along with some general advise. For example, I have sanding blocks rangine from 1/4" wide to 31/2" and 1" long to 48", and use them all for various purposes. Yes, you can buy a door and prop it up with saw horses and get buy, but sooner or later, you will find a excellent workbench is flat required to do good work. How can you build a streight wing with a old warped door as a basis. You will have to invest around $200.00 to build something that is truly streight and will not deflect in the center. I built mine some 20 years ago when you had to make glue-lam beams small enough to work with and strong enough not to deflect at all with a 7'span and 200 lbs in the center. Now you can buy wonderfull man made spot on streight mini-lams/micro lams at your local lumber house and build something perfect. I cut down 11/8" plywood into 8" strips X 8', laminated 2 togeather for a total of 3 beams and then had a local cabinet shop get them streight. A 1/2" or 5/8" plywood top is adequate, but you have to pop for marine grade, about $60.00 for a 4' X 8' decent piece of wood that does not vary a bunch in width like the cheaper grades do. I thought I had a good piece of ply, but after installing I found the ply varied in thickness as much as .300 in a few feet. Took seveeral days getting it streight by using playing cards between the beams and plywood along the ultimate length of 7', and a belt sander in bad areas. The goal is to get a streight and lever bench with less than .010 varience in all directions. Its doable, just a pain. Even at the end, you find the slab floor the bench sits on has a 1/4" or more variable in flat. So, prop legs as needed, simple. Yep, now just never move the darn bench or it will be out of level again. Why is level a issue? Well its not, its just much easer to get a level on that wing or fuse you are trying to get down right, and the designer wants 1/2% down thrust in the wing and 1/2% up in the elevator. That was the actual requirements of a pattern ship I recently built for a friend with more money than sence. Anyway, I rant, send a pic please.
Like anything else, it helps to have some background experience. There is a art to building and fiberglass work, but not rocket science. If there is enough of the nose left on the bird to allow you to push it back into original position, you should be able to repair it with no problem, just some added weight. There are several threads on composite buildilng that would be good to read through. You can to with just fiberglass and epoxie. Look at the existing fiberglass weave and try to find something near the same weave and weight as the original. Z-poxie finishing resin is a good brand, all purpose material, but is slow 20-30 minutes in setting up. You have to get all the oil out of the repair area, a bath in kitchen soap and warm watter followed by wipe down of alcohol should do the trick. Roughen up the area with 80 grit sandpaper as much as you can. Cut the FB with a pizza wheel cutter or scissors and don't worry about the strings. New piece should be large enough to overlap the repair area into the new by 3/4" or so. You need popsicle sticks and forcep type long nose plyers along with soldering brushes as aids. Also need to find little plastic medical measure cups from a local medical supply house, maby at your local drug store, but I have to go to a medical supply around here. They are marked in oz. and volume, about 3 cents each. You can chuck them after use or wash out with alcohol and paper towls. Thing is with Z-poxie, if you mix more hardner than epoxie in the cup, you get useless rubber. Always use a little less hardner to get a good strong finish. There are losts of fiberglass/composits and epoxie supplyers out there, some better than the other, but usually all will work. I would repair from the inside myself as getting a sanded finish will be easier, but outside will work. Find a building with composits thread on rcu and read. Bottom line, you need to keep it light and strong. Its tough trying to get a feel of a problem like this, a few pics would help a bunch and also generate some additional help from the people here. See what you can to in this area. Even if you try and fail, you will learn from mestakes and to better next time. There is really no great tallent involved with building once you get the hang of it, just follow instructions. What is key in my view is having a streight building board and a few simple tools along with some general advise. For example, I have sanding blocks rangine from 1/4" wide to 31/2" and 1" long to 48", and use them all for various purposes. Yes, you can buy a door and prop it up with saw horses and get buy, but sooner or later, you will find a excellent workbench is flat required to do good work. How can you build a streight wing with a old warped door as a basis. You will have to invest around $200.00 to build something that is truly streight and will not deflect in the center. I built mine some 20 years ago when you had to make glue-lam beams small enough to work with and strong enough not to deflect at all with a 7'span and 200 lbs in the center. Now you can buy wonderfull man made spot on streight mini-lams/micro lams at your local lumber house and build something perfect. I cut down 11/8" plywood into 8" strips X 8', laminated 2 togeather for a total of 3 beams and then had a local cabinet shop get them streight. A 1/2" or 5/8" plywood top is adequate, but you have to pop for marine grade, about $60.00 for a 4' X 8' decent piece of wood that does not vary a bunch in width like the cheaper grades do. I thought I had a good piece of ply, but after installing I found the ply varied in thickness as much as .300 in a few feet. Took seveeral days getting it streight by using playing cards between the beams and plywood along the ultimate length of 7', and a belt sander in bad areas. The goal is to get a streight and lever bench with less than .010 varience in all directions. Its doable, just a pain. Even at the end, you find the slab floor the bench sits on has a 1/4" or more variable in flat. So, prop legs as needed, simple. Yep, now just never move the darn bench or it will be out of level again. Why is level a issue? Well its not, its just much easer to get a level on that wing or fuse you are trying to get down right, and the designer wants 1/2% down thrust in the wing and 1/2% up in the elevator. That was the actual requirements of a pattern ship I recently built for a friend with more money than sence. Anyway, I rant, send a pic please.
09-03-2007, 11:34 AM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
Yo Dude 8 & brother:
You know, you are just right on. Old timmers seem to ramble just a little more as we get a little older. Some day, I just may get old enough for you, or brother to be able to beat me at the tretcherous thing. Frankly getting close, but will never admit it. Missed seeing you guys this year, hope to get down your direction in the near future. Have been giving Daven (Dave Norman) a hard time for grins, think maby have bitten off a little more than I can chew?? Gonna make Tuson 08 for sure, if the eyes hold up, may just go for it with a little help from a sharp eyed caller young dude type, or at least root for some of my favorite people. ENJOY
You know, you are just right on. Old timmers seem to ramble just a little more as we get a little older. Some day, I just may get old enough for you, or brother to be able to beat me at the tretcherous thing. Frankly getting close, but will never admit it. Missed seeing you guys this year, hope to get down your direction in the near future. Have been giving Daven (Dave Norman) a hard time for grins, think maby have bitten off a little more than I can chew?? Gonna make Tuson 08 for sure, if the eyes hold up, may just go for it with a little help from a sharp eyed caller young dude type, or at least root for some of my favorite people. ENJOY
09-05-2007, 03:48 PM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
I've got my Tony/Evo 100 combo cooking along with a Bolle prop. I can't remember what size
prop, as a buddy of mine just handed it to me. I was wondering what the best speed prop for this engine would be. Someone mentioned a 12x9 I think.
prop, as a buddy of mine just handed it to me. I was wondering what the best speed prop for this engine would be. Someone mentioned a 12x9 I think.
09-07-2007, 03:24 PM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
jzinckgra;
Looks like there is not a lot of experience out here with a elvo 100, I have none with elvo, except with a 26 gasser, whole different world. If you have a good tack. you can start working on getting that thing going. If you do not have a good tack., get one before you try to dial that thing in. It seems every engine has its own personality even same brands and sizes. Some engines are tuned for grunt, some high rpm depending on application needs. What ever engine type you are working with has a sweet spot where rpm's are on the higher side and the engine will pull hard in turns, the best of all worlds. Guys that seem to win more than the others have that nack for tuning something that everyone else better than most. This includes tank location, and bedding, fuel line routing correct glow plug and fuel, prop and spinner ballance. Start with the prop you have that seems to work well, write the rpm down in a diary, as a base line compairson. Now, you can check other brands against your bolly as to rpms. 100-200 rpms may be significant in a pylon race after 10 laps, in sport flying, undectable flying by yourself. By cutting down the length of the prop and re-balance, you can find a ball park where the engine performs best on the tack with what prop and size. Try to gat close to the manufacturers rated rpms. Now you can start playing with pitch at 1/2 pitch at a time. Some grunt engines will pull a heck of a pitch and only give you 12,000 or less, still faster than just rpm's with another engine or prop. The hard part with engnes is where a static run on the ground gives you the best overall prop rpm, you fly it and its pokey. I hear some guys resort to witchcraft at this point, or locked up in padded cells, or should be. A engines temperature, rpms and exhaust trail are always speaking to you. Learn what its saying. Sorry I can not be more helpfull> ENJOY
Looks like there is not a lot of experience out here with a elvo 100, I have none with elvo, except with a 26 gasser, whole different world. If you have a good tack. you can start working on getting that thing going. If you do not have a good tack., get one before you try to dial that thing in. It seems every engine has its own personality even same brands and sizes. Some engines are tuned for grunt, some high rpm depending on application needs. What ever engine type you are working with has a sweet spot where rpm's are on the higher side and the engine will pull hard in turns, the best of all worlds. Guys that seem to win more than the others have that nack for tuning something that everyone else better than most. This includes tank location, and bedding, fuel line routing correct glow plug and fuel, prop and spinner ballance. Start with the prop you have that seems to work well, write the rpm down in a diary, as a base line compairson. Now, you can check other brands against your bolly as to rpms. 100-200 rpms may be significant in a pylon race after 10 laps, in sport flying, undectable flying by yourself. By cutting down the length of the prop and re-balance, you can find a ball park where the engine performs best on the tack with what prop and size. Try to gat close to the manufacturers rated rpms. Now you can start playing with pitch at 1/2 pitch at a time. Some grunt engines will pull a heck of a pitch and only give you 12,000 or less, still faster than just rpm's with another engine or prop. The hard part with engnes is where a static run on the ground gives you the best overall prop rpm, you fly it and its pokey. I hear some guys resort to witchcraft at this point, or locked up in padded cells, or should be. A engines temperature, rpms and exhaust trail are always speaking to you. Learn what its saying. Sorry I can not be more helpfull> ENJOY
06-01-2010, 08:34 PM
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RE: Little Toni or Cermark Alley Cat?
the AC is much faster with a smaller engine than the LT. i find it very hard to believe the one doing 150. 22,000 on a 11x8 ??????????? is that a carbon prop? I have seen these fly and I agree it would need a moki 2.1 to get over 130 5 hp. i have seen the alley cats do 130-135 with tower 75 that have been retimed for jett pipes. 90 lx might go a bit more maybe 140 but thats about it. now with a 90-105 DF engine could see 160 on them.
