Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

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Old 11-07-2005, 02:15 PM
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thefunkyhobbit
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Default The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

Hi Guys, I have just found the brotherhood after a couple of years in speed wilderness here in the United Kingdom.

I have recently started to fly again after a couple of years away working.I have a "Wasp 40" powered by a modified ST G500. I am looking to buy a Weston Magnum from here in the Uk as they look pretty cool.
I would like the ultimate prop motor that is going to out perform the West V50.
I have looked at the Dubb Jett, BSB 50? is this a contender for blowing off the West?
Does anyone have any other suggestions.

I have a pretty good background in RC Hydros, tuning CMB OPS and Rossi motors,so I dont mind spending money on a top class motor.
Many thanks,Mark Palmer
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Old 11-07-2005, 02:27 PM
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petec
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

I'll be watching this thread with interest as I have been looking at the Magnum for a little while and was wondering if I should buy the package or use a different engine.

From what I have gathered thus far the West is supposed to be prttey quick.
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Old 11-07-2005, 03:13 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

I think really the west is the ultimate engine for this bird. The JETT is a good engine, but I don't know that it's any faster than what the West will be. The magnum airframe isn't really clean enough to take full advantage of the pylon engines such as the nelson's or Jett's either. The front of the magnum is pretty small as well so fitting anything much bigger than a 50 in there will present a bit of an issue. If you want to go faster than what the Magnum with the West50VI will do, I suggest looking at a faster airframe that can take advantage of high revving engines a little better.
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Old 11-07-2005, 03:15 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

Hi Mark.....

The W-50 is a heck of an engine. Runs pretty darn well. Considering the availability in the UK, and Alan's support of the product, its a hard package to beat. No doubt lots of folks have had sucess with the magnum/W50 package.

The top end Jett product in that size class is the SJ-60LX (or BSE-60LX if you prefer). It is set up for serious top end performance, and includes the SS type muffler. Usually a 9x9 or one of the 8.8x9.25 props works very well (clipped a bit if needed). Sometimes a clipped 10x10 can do some wonders too It can squeeze out a little more if you go with a full size nitro pipe. But with the peformance it has with the standard setup, most folks stick with the less complex arrangement and use the standard SS muffler.

Bob
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Old 11-07-2005, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

Hi Guys thanks for the replies.
In the past I have enjoyed re working Marine motors for circuit racing.
I have tried reworking my ST G500 as follows:
Mill out case carb throat to take a West/Webra carb.
Advancing rotor timing 5 Deg,Extending rotor timing 5 Deg,
Taper throat inlet of the rotor,taper outlet of the rotor with @ 60 Deg cone.
Reload with BOCA ceramic bearings
Advance boost and transfer ports by 5 Deg.
Advance Exhaust timing up to 178Deg.
Rework inner case to Blue print with liner ports.Skirt piston up to base of piston top pin casting leaving exhaust skirt intact.

Gas flow/Taper boost and transfer ports,and under cut base of liner in port area.
Rework and taper crank end cap to assist boost transfer.
Rework and streamlined rod with a steep diamond profile.
Balance as best as possible piston/rod against crank.
Machine new head button to suit 30% nitro

the ST is set up on 30% Cool power, Rossi R6 plug, APC 8X8.
Preswitck alloy open full wave pipe set at 28cm.
Tacho static @ 21K

The motor has little to no bottom end, its all or nothing!!.
I have to dive a little to get the motor on the pipe,but once its there it stays.

I think I have maxed out this poor little ST and the rod will probably let go soon.

I have studied the internals of my friends West V50, there ain't nothing special going on.
Apart from the timings being a little higher,and the head button being higher compression,the West looks like a sport motor.The port volumes on the boost and transfer are smaller than my O.S 46 FX
The West internal components are well machined but thickness and tolerances are under spec compared to my ST.
I have no doubt that the West Performs well and seems to be in Vogue at the moment. I am looking for a Race bred motor that I can rework a little.
Could the Jett 60 BSE LX be reworked to turn a 10X7 in the high 19,s or early 20Ks if it was running on mid nitro and a full wave pipe?
I am not Racing,just flying for the "Buzz" so rules an regs don't apply.
I am a novice when it comes to airframes,so I thought the Magnum would be a good choice.
However after being informed by you guys that its a little draggy,what do you suggest as an alternative?.
I do like the look of "Reno style" airframes but i am not so keen on full Pylon style airframes.
Thanks,Mark Palmer
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Old 11-07-2005, 06:54 PM
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RANIERY
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

get an MB PROFI 40 there's nothing fgatser than that. over 30.000 rpm and over 200 mph. no kidding.
thats the pylon engine of choice for f3d in europe and you should have no trouble getting it.
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

What rpm can be expected with the 60LX with the props you mentioned. I talked to Dub briefly about one the other day when he was working on one of my engines but I didn't get any specifics.
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Old 11-07-2005, 11:05 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??


ORIGINAL: RANIERY

get an MB PROFI 40 there's nothing fgatser than that. over 30.000 rpm and over 200 mph. no kidding.
thats the pylon engine of choice for f3d in europe and you should have no trouble getting it.

You obviously love this engine, and that's great, they're an awesome engine, but it won't be a good engine for the Magnum, to start with, at those RPM's on the tiny prop, you'll have a hell of a time hand launching it. The engine will slip and slip as the magnum is nowhere near as clean as an F3D. I don't know about the 30,000rpm either, unwinding in the air yes, on the ground, I dunno, even the website doesn't say 30K on the ground. It would be like putting a nelson in a magnum, it would be a waste of a sensational engine in that airframe.
Do you sell the Profi's by chance?
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Old 11-08-2005, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

Ummmm..... you want to see the 60LX hit the 19K range with a 10x7 prop? Good lord.

The LX configuration has the sub induction setup, high timed sleeve, and the top-end tuned muffler. To get any more..... yeah... id imagine its possible if you want to stray far away from it being considered a reliable sport engine ...... switch to a full pipe or the black Q-500 muffler - you would need more carb throat too, maybe go to the sport racing SS40 big bore carb (or just a 10mm venturi). This would likely get a 10x6 up there, poooooooooooossssibly a 10x7 - but you give up any sort of midrange or idle.

The limiting factor of an engine this size is case volume and intake volume through the crankshaft. Remember, its a "40" size engine. There is only so much metal and space available.

ChuckL ......
The 9x9 and 8.8x9.25 will get up into that 18K range easily - and well above that in flight. Some folks here can tell you their peformance with the stock 9x9 prop on a SJ-50 engine - use for comparison. The 8.8x9.5 is a good deal of prop - the Q-500 engines turn the 8.8x9 JUST at 19,000 on the ground, and the 9.25 is difficult to get to stage on the muffler (drops down into low/mid 18K range). But with the bigger engine, and the SS muffler, its not a problem. Use what ever prop best suits your application - just select one that turns 17,000 or better on the ground.
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Old 11-08-2005, 10:27 AM
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MJD
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

ORIGINAL: thefunkyhobbit
Could the Jett 60 BSE LX be reworked to turn a 10X7 in the high 19,s or early 20Ks if it was running on mid nitro and a full wave pipe?
That's an odd choice of prop if you want to fly fast. Great if you want to climb straight up at about 125 mph but not so good for top speed.

The Weston motor may look ordinary, but it runs like a demon and is quite nice-mannered. Mine is new and tachs just over 20k on a stock APC 9-6 on 10%. If you want anything other than top end the 60LX or the West .50 are good choices. Wanna go faster? Get the rear exhaust version, and modify the fiberglass canopy section to accept an enclosed pipe. That's my plan for the winter, I have a Magnum ready for surgery.

MJD
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Old 11-08-2005, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

You guys sure know your onions!!( an English saying,LOL!)

My expectations of oversized 40 sized motors may be a little too much.Bob has kindly reminded me in his last post regarding case volume etc.
I think I might have to go for a fan motor and experiment with props.
Most of the 45 size Marine motors that I am familiar with rev between 2000 to 25000 RPM range.They throttle well and run great if the pipe length is set correctly.But these motor have tremendous case volume and Carbs,double crank webs,steel con rods etc.== too much weight.
A True Pylon motor with venturi aint for me.
If I could find a Fan Motor that I can reverse the case to have the exhaust outlet on the same side as the prop drive,I could fit a horse shoe buggy type manifold to run the pipe along the Fuzz.
Any suggestions?
regards,Mark Palmer
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Old 11-08-2005, 06:37 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

Thanks for the info Bob, I have a SJ50 and a FIRE50 I was just trying to get an Idea of the performance gain on the 60LX for my next puchase.

The West 50 is a great engine I have two and love both of them you can't go wrong with the magnum/Weston combo.
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:29 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

The webra 50 with pipe timing runs very well. The webra 55 with pipe timing should run even better and it is lightweight.
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:47 AM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

call me crazy but i am currently stuffing a bvm 82 in this magnum. shortended nose 1.5 inches 10 oz fuel tank ill let you know how it goes.
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Old 07-14-2006, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

OK dusteaterr- You are crazy!

That is awesome! Truly what speed-fun is all about, why the 82 was the 96 not available? Just kidding man...

Do you have pics? Seems like a heavy set-up. You gonna use a dolly of some kind?

What prop and RRR's you expect?

To the original poster, LGM is on the button--- This airplane is not as slippery as an F3D and the West-50 (modified Webra-50) is a monster on 8x8 apparently...

If you wanna run a DF engine it'd be fun but I doubt you can beat the West. An example is my old K&B 7.5CC FIRE engine would turn a 9x7 Rev-Up prop. around 19K, but the REV is EASY to spin- The Jett-fire 50 is better on 9 inchers, the West is popular for running an 8x8. I have read "claims" where the West hits 20K+ [X(] on an 8x8

Either way good luck and keep us posted!
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Old 07-14-2006, 03:39 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

A BVM 82 in a Magnum? Holy Moly, now I've heard everything.

You won't be disapointed in the Magnum/West 50 combo, Mark. The West runs like a scalded dog. Keep in mind also, this plane is small and gets out of your sight real quick.

I've got the Combo sitting in a box in my hobby room. (a replacement) I really need to get off my you know what.

Hey Dusteaterr, what is the weight of the BVM 82? Doesn't seem like shortening it 1 1/2" would be enough. Did it balance out ok? Keep us up to date.

Gary
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Old 07-14-2006, 03:52 PM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

Sounds like a fun project....

any plans on how to deal with the rear-intake rear-exhaust ??
(from experience, the magnum is not very condusive to using a rear exhaust pipe setup)

Bob
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Old 07-17-2006, 01:42 AM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??


ORIGINAL: RANIERY

get an MB PROFI 40 there's nothing fgatser than that. over 30.000 rpm and over 200 mph. no kidding.
thats the pylon engine of choice for f3d in europe and you should have no trouble getting it.

Do you know the website where one can find the MB PROFI 40?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:59 AM
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Default RE: The ultimate motor for a Magnum R??

hmmmm.. the link I had for Rob Metkemeijer does not seem to work any longer. Look around though, some of the CL speed sites might have a current link.

If you are at all considering an FAI engine for something other than actually racing (i.e. you do not mind it turns lower rpm around 28-29,000 rpm), the Nelson FAI engine or the Jett "practice" FAI engine are real good alternatives.
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