Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

tt pro

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Old 12-23-2005, 08:44 AM
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spadalltheway
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Default tt pro

Hi, does anyone know what would be the fastest prop for my Thunder Tiger Pro 46 without killing the engine. Ive been running in on q500 with Bolly 10.5/6, APC 10/6? APC 9/7 or 6?

What would this motor be like in a Weston Magnum, does anyone have plans for the magnum or similar?.
Can i get a pipe for this engine?
Thanks guys.
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Old 12-23-2005, 12:56 PM
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Mike Connor
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Default RE: tt pro

The Thunder Tiger Pro 46 is a good solid engine with decent performance. I would use a APC 9x7 on a Q-500 plane. There is a Jett and Ultrathrust tuned muffler that will add well over 1000 rpm. Tower also has a muffler that will give a significant boost for very little money.
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Old 12-23-2005, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

I run a TTpro 46 with a 9/7 apc. 17,000 rpms on my shrike
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Old 12-23-2005, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

Hi, I also have a TT .46, I´m going to put it also in a q500 plane (GP Viper).
question is, would a mvvs .40 quickie give a "boost" of speed to the plane or is it better to invest my money on other diferent engine?
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Old 12-23-2005, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

Thanks for the replys guys! so i guess ill get a 9x7. What speed would that get the quikie to, around? I use a 10.5x6 and its well over 100, maby 140. Nathan
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Old 12-23-2005, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

I've been using an 8.75X8W APC pylon prop on my TT 46 Pro/ GP Viper combo. Engine is turning around 16,500 ( conservatively set right now since the engine is still new ) with this combination and moves the Viper along pretty good.
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Old 12-23-2005, 11:05 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

You need about 8 horse power @ 25,000 rpm to make that 10.5x6 prop deliver 140 mph. I'm not saying that it can't be done though........
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Old 12-24-2005, 12:23 AM
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Default RE: tt pro

COMBATPIGG: Sure enjoy your responses. I work my butt off designing wild and different airframes, grinding on motors, testilng different props and test flying to try and get a handle on the finished product. You take a few minutes, do some realistic calculations, spend 1 penny on pensil, paper, maby a HP calcuclator and get it right the majority of the time. I honestly envy you in one way and want to shoot you in the other. Have a great Christmas guys
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Old 12-24-2005, 02:23 AM
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HI RMENKE, Thanks, [I think?] You got the paper thing right, my second wife came complete with a life time supply of butcher paper, so my expenses for drawing supplies is down to what those DIXON TICONDEROGA #2s are going for. I've had my share of duds, until I ever get the .40 powered speed plane going, I've got to wear a dunce cap until that little pig's in the air.

I think it IS interesting to see what kind of power would have to be generated to get a 10.5x6 chewing up and spitting out air at 140 mph. Now take smaller diameter props and plug in the same numbers to see what power is needed to get the same speed and it's amazing how quickly the power requirement drops to realistic levels. THRUST HP is good for at least comparisons, and I did back up some of their thrust calcs with actual, real life measurements of 1/2A power. Of course at low levels of power, slight errors aren't too obvious.

MERRY XMAS, hope Santa brings to all of you and your loved ones, more rpm.

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Old 12-24-2005, 10:25 AM
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Default RE: tt pro

combatpig,

What RPM would be necessary to get an apc 10x7 prop to go 125 mph in the straight and level?
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Old 12-24-2005, 12:12 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

Dave, Thrust HP isn't working for me right now, so I did it with a #2 lead pencil and came up with 18,885 rpm. It would be interesting to see what the calculated HP works out to. I'm sure that it is more than the engines I play with, would this be feasible with a hot .90?
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Old 12-24-2005, 12:14 PM
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Default RE: tt pro


ORIGINAL: daven

combatpig,

What RPM would be necessary to get an apc 10x7 prop to go 125 mph in the straight and level?
Here is what ThrustHP says. You can download it for free at
http://www.bmaps.net/
It is under goodies. I agree with combatpigg it is good for comparisons.
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Old 12-24-2005, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

Why dont you guys ask "Will Robison " here to send you his chart from Excel. Works real good for me and gives me a ballpark number to use as a baseline or break in prop
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Old 12-24-2005, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

I just reloaded THRUST HP, and can now put the pencil away. Thanks for the handy link.

That ROBISON character has alot of tricks up his sleeve, I didn't realize that he has access to a power calculator that he's only sharing with a select few ?
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Old 12-25-2005, 04:57 AM
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Default RE: tt pro

Everyone has access to it...

He got off the website of the man who wrote the spreadsheet, just like everybody else.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/pereivers/prop-power.xls
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Old 12-25-2005, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

That just blows me away.

I'm running that prop on the new O.S. .46 AX in our local racing class. I am getting ground RPM in the 14,000 - 14,500 Peak.

We have tested every prop APC makes in the proper range and the sport 10x7 is the overall most consistent prop in terms of top speed (125 mph) and speed out of the corners (110-115 mph). We can get some of the pylon props (8.8x8.75 among others) to hit 130 mph in the straights, but they get killed in a hard turn (100-105) and take time to build up speed.

Also, we get quite a few more rpms out of the 9x7, but it isn't any faster and takes longer to get up to top speed.

Fire Away, I know my speed claims are accurate. Don't dispute the speed, just try and help me understand how this can happen??
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Old 12-25-2005, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

Daven,
Being rather new in this thing of speed planes, how do you determine how fast a plane is going? I bought a Bell & Howell radar gun and it is difficult to use; must be straight on, i.e., directly in the flight path to get a correct reading, and, it isn't very sensitive so the plane must be a little too close for comfort to get a reading.

Arthur
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Old 12-25-2005, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

DAVEN, there was an article about this sort of thing [in one of the mags], and it showed huge discrepencies between calculated and actual speeds with some set ups. The error worked both ways, depending on the plane and power combo. I never saw the article, sorry I missed it. If anyone has a link to it, please pass it on! Maybe the cleaner and lighter the plane, the more able the prop is to become greater than 100% efficient ?
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Old 12-25-2005, 10:03 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

We are using a Stalker Pro Radar gun (roughly $1300). Pretty accurate (although not perfect). It is the radar gun that most of the pylon guys use for accuracy.

Heres another question. The 8.8" x 8.75 prop turns far more rpm (16-16.5) k, yet is barely 5mph faster. How can that be? You can question the accuracy of the radar, but it at least should give you numbers that correlate with one another.

Planes are your basic 3.5 lb quickee
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:16 AM
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Default RE: tt pro

According to THRUST HP CALCULATOR, a 10x7 that is spinning fast enough to go 125 mph is producing 10 pounds of thrust and requires 3.2 HP. Doesn't sound possible for a .46, maybe for [2] .46s joined at the hip ! The mathematical rpm at that speed is 19,000, which would be right at the breaking point [190,000/D] of an APC prop, too. Maybe the APC blade design has a variable that the THRUST HP program doesn't handle very well?
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Old 12-26-2005, 01:33 AM
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Default RE: tt pro


ORIGINAL: daven


Fire Away, I know my speed claims are accurate. Don't dispute the speed, just try and help me understand how this can happen??
I don't have a link but here is something Jeremy F. posted awhile back. Like you Dave, I have seen too much evidence that the Theoretical speed can be exceeded.

--------------

published in MAAC magazine a few months back.



Aircraft.....................Engine............RPM ........Pitch.................Theoretical mph............Actual mph
6ft Chipmunk............90 4 Stroke.....9540.......14x6..................54.20. .........................84.7
Hanger 9 mustang.....100 4 stroke...9240........14x7..................61.25.. ........................72.43
1/A wing...................061 Norvel.....21,990.....5x3....................62.5. ...........................96.4
Quicky.....................40 2 stroke.....18,500.....9x8....................141.. ...........................139
Diamond Dust..........40 2 stroke.....24,400.....7x8....................184.8 ...........................165

So go figure........
For interest, the article says:

Each competitor must fly straight and level over a 528 foot course, both ways and is timed from two pylons at each end. The timing system used is manual timing to a single stop watch, hard wired from each end. This method has proven more accurate than a radar gun that was used in the past. The flying mile is comprised of five timed laps around the pylons.

So yes, there is room for error etc, but I just found it quite interesting when I read it

Another short excerpt from the article that actually made great sense to me when explaining why an aircraft would move faster than the theoretical pitch would allow was

" 'it's perfectly understandable, it's a rotating wing with an airfoil .' As I had a very good understanding of boat propellers of which always had slip factors of from 12% to 30% it became very apparent that air and airfoil s were very different"

I guess when you consider that a wing in forward motion creates lift, it stands to reason that a forward facing rotating wing will create more pull than just what the pitch of that prop is giving as it's creating lift as well.
I don't understand the physics behind it, nor do I want to, all I know is, I've had airplanes that were radar clocked faster than what they "should" have been going and never understood why, this sort of tells me why it COULD be anyway


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Old 12-26-2005, 01:46 AM
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Default RE: tt pro

One more thing to consider. In full scale flight training you learn that when thrust and drag are equal, speed will be constant. Add thrust and you accelerate. A 10x7 at 14,000 rpm has more thrust then a 9x7 at 15,000 rpm.
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:42 PM
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Default RE: tt pro

I'm trying to replace the bearings in my TT46 pro. Can someone tell me if it matters which direction the rear bearing has to be placed in the engine. I'm using Boca bearings. The rear bearing has an open face where you can she the ball bearings and the other side is closed off. Does it matter which way the bearing is placed into the engine. Thanks for the help.

Ken
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