Extreme Speed Prop Planes Discuss the need for speed with fast prop planes (Screamin Demon, Diamond Dust, Shrikes or any REAL sound breakin'''' plane)

250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

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Old 05-28-2007, 12:58 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Wanted to bring this one back for a bit...
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Old 05-29-2007, 04:34 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th


Speedcup 2007

Well, at least ten European participants are going to try busting the current FAI world speed record (both “nitro“ and “electric“) this year from June 9th to 10th. Will 250 mph be reached?

Who will be faster - the nitro or the electric guys?


List of pilots:
http://www.f3s-speedcup.de/anmeldung...Teilnehmer.php


regulations:
http://www.f3s-speedcup.de/documents..._KZF36-585.pdf


Location is the gliderport of Luftsportverein Neumagen-Dhron (Germany):
http://www.edrd.de/
http://maps.google.de/maps/ms?ie=UTF...&t=k&z=14&om=1

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Old 06-04-2007, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

To raise suspense [sm=wink_smile.gif], some impressions of last years SpeedCup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZvkDI-gTSk
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

I was looking at the contest's PDF file for rules: [link=http://www.f3s-speedcup.de/documents/BeMod_KZF36-585.pdf]Rules PDF[/link]
What are the surface loading rules for the classes?
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:26 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Troy-RCU

I was looking at the contest's PDF file for rules: [link=http://www.f3s-speedcup.de/documents/BeMod_KZF36-585.pdf]Rules PDF[/link]
What are the surface loading rules for the classes?
Well, this is paragraph 5S.2.1

Maximum allowed wing load dry (without fuel) but with batteries (for electrospeed) is 75.0 grams/dm^2.




To determine the area used for calculating load the rules say:

"1.4.1. Surface Area (st)
The surface area includes the total surface of the wings and that of the horizontal or oblique stabilising surface or surfaces. The surfaces taken for calculation are the orthogonal projection on to a horizontal plane of the surfaces in question with each surface at zero incidences.
When wings or stabilising surfaces are built into the fuselage of the model aircraft the surface taken into account shall include that area contained within the normal contours of the flight surfaces extended so as to meet at the plane of symmetry of the model."



This applies for both nitro and electric powered planes in all speed classes (A to F).
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

IMHO it is much more exciting to refine nitro driven speed planes, their powerplants and their fixed pitch props than the electro speed counterparts. I think it is more challenging to achieve more rpm out of a high performance combustion engine than “just“ taking the newest LiPo generation powerpack and the latest “extreme muscle-bound” E-motor and controller.

Maybe in future electronically actuated speed props will show up. A variable pitch, matching the Ah + rpm + torque + temperature optimum per flight phase, would be another gimmick for the electro speed freaks.

So let’s await the 2007 speed results and hopefully new world records!

Results being online updated every 15 minutes can be watched here:

http://www.f3s-speedcup.de/ergebnisse.php

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Old 06-08-2007, 11:40 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Thanks I-Love-Jets

I understand how difficult it is to 'fine tune' the glo set ups, but the electric stuff does not always work the first time either. Finding the right motor and prop is difficult and blowing up speed controls and batteries is expensive. BTW, there have been adjustable pitch drive systems used in high power electro models with the F5B class. The Germans and Swiss have played with this and a gentleman here in the US made on for his large IMAC gas powered plane for 4-D style aerobatics. It would certainly be a good thing to eventually try when you hit the 'speed wall'.



The surface loading rules are a little higher than the F5 FAI limits. F5B and F5D are at 65g/dm^2. I'll see if I can calculate that out...
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:57 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

75g/dm^2=
24.5oz/ft^2

65g/dm^2=
21.3oz/ft^2
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:38 AM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Follow the results here, updated every 15 minutes:
[link]http://www.f3s-speedcup.de/ergebnisse.php[/link]

Current best: 394 Km/h or 244 mph
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Congratulations to German fellow J. Weirich for his formidable 394,1 kph run. The engine is a highly modified OPS 60 VAE. He makes everything (plane, props, engine parts machining &mods) by himself.

Because his wing load was above 75 grams/dm^2 the FAI world speed record for IC engines is still unbeaten:

FAI world record F3 Open (No.145): 343,92 kph
by Goukoune, Vladimir/ Myakinine, Valeri 1971 (URSS)
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

However a new FAI electro speed world record has been established by David Dzida from Germany:

362,2 kph !

His setup:

NEU1509, CC125 modified, custom made prop, TP3450 5S
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:56 AM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

For those of us who are conversion-challenged:

392.1 kph= 244.882 mph

362.2kph= 225.060 mph

Sounded like a fun, yet challenging weekend! There was a bit of carnage and tree shredding
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Old 06-11-2007, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Am I reading that correctly......

half of the field didnt put in an official flight, or did not show up to compete ?

Bob
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:15 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

As Troy already noted there was a good amount of shredding.

The competitor field has been depleted due to a variety of causes:

1. mainly because of glitches induced by a thunder storm weather situation especially at Saturday. In particular the eletro boys were affected here.
2. overstressing of the airframe (during pulling out of the dives)
3. overheating of batteries, controllers and motors (air was quite hot at about 30 degrees Centigrade plus very high humidity)
4. stall right after hand launching
5. pilot error (also influenced by worse range of sight => fog)
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:38 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Congrats indeed!!!

244... that is just awesome! Do you think the plane has room for modifications so it meets the FAI rules? The record is there, it's so close!

I love the power plant pic of the electric plane... Flying battery...
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Old 06-12-2007, 04:01 AM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rudeboy

244... that is just awesome! Do you think the plane has room for modifications so it meets the FAI rules? The record is there, it's so close!
There will be always room for improvement - there are so many factors involved. Mister Weirich usually does come with a new style airframe each Speedcup.

If he manages to reduce wing load down to 75 gram/dm^2 (24.5oz/ft^2) then...
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

An easy trick to meeting the FAI surface loading requirement is to see how many grams over you are, and then add some triangles at the wing saddle area or at the front of the horizontal tail to increase your surface area. Sometimes it's not very much that you need but maybe Weirich was really heavy??

This looks like what David did but he may have been filling a gap in the wing saddle too.
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Troy-RCU

... Sometimes it's not very much that you need but maybe Weirich was really heavy??
Well in this case a "simple" mod of the wing/fuse transition would have been insufficient. This year Weirich did not compete to break the world speed record anyway (no X in pilot’s list specified).

It is hard to achieve a dry weight of less than 2 kg of a competitive .60 powered speed plane without running the risk of structural failures.

So a larger wing is the way to go.
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Old 06-30-2007, 10:42 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

I’m curious, what angle of dive is used before entering the traps at that event? How much altitude is used to build up speed? How fast would any of these airplanes be with just level flight?
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:04 AM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlains

I’m curious, what angle of dive is used before entering the traps at that event? How much altitude is used to build up speed? How fast would any of these airplanes be with just level flight?
Well, they are essentially in level flight when going through the speed trap :
The FAI rules are such that the plane must have been flying between 5 and 35 meter altitude (16 to 114 feet) for 100 meter (328 feet) before entering the 200 meter (656 feet) speed trap itself, and the course must be flown both ways in a single flight, then the average of the speeds both ways is the offical result.
This said, they climb to great heights before diving to enter the 100 meter pre-course under 35 meter altitude. Theoretically, the maximum dive angle when entering the 200 meter course would be such that the model loses 30 meters altitude over 100 meter, i.e. 16.7 ° (= atan(.3)). This would of course lead to a crash :>). More realistically, a good pilot would aim to enter the pre-course at 35 meter altitude, and exit the course at 5 meter, losing 30 meter over 300 meter, i.e. a slope of 5.7° (= atan(.1)).
Note that for a 2kg model flying at 360 km/h (100m/s), this ideal maximum slope is worth a free extra 200W (.27 HP) from gravity!
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:55 AM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Interesting news from Germany!

A new electric speed plane project, called HAYABUSA F3S, now broke the 250 mph "barrier" inofficially during training flights this Juli und flew in excess of 420 kph (262 mph, see below log). Prop and the motor are custom made. R&D took 8 months...

More details about this HAYABUSA purpose built electric speed plane and its hopefully equivalently powerful contenders will be supplied during this year’s Euro Speed CUP 2008 (Sept 27th –28th).

http://www.f3s-speedcup.de/information.php


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Old 07-06-2008, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

[X(]
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Old 07-13-2008, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

Does the hyabusa comply with the FAI wing loading rules or did they just make a really fast plane? Did you get radar or use just GPS for speed measurement.
thanks.
erik
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Old 07-13-2008, 11:35 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

I believe they are building this to be a contender in the next Speedcup. I did a search in RC Network (the German forum) and there wasn't much more info but it was in the F3S thread. They are using the Unilog inflight speed recorder.
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Old 07-13-2008, 11:41 PM
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Default RE: 250 mph speed! - German SPEEDCUP 2006 scheduled Sept 15th 16th 17th

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...=71411&page=13

when you're in there, Right click, Page Info, and Translate to English (for Internet Explorer).
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